BBO Discussion Forums: Exit Angelini - BBO Discussion Forums

NickRW, on Jun 28 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Hasn't there been some wrangling over this issue in England in recent years? I seem to think that some players refuse to compete because they cannot play with their sponsors, or something along those lines.

Several interesting posts here.
I will try to clarify what I meant early. Sorry for my poor English.
I believe there are three different points.

1) Fantunes were left out of the IT team, IMO unfairly. To me are the best pair in Europe, others may disagree, but I believe any bridge enthusiast will at least agree that they are at least one of the top five pairs in Europe. I remember in past European championships all the rave was about them, especially about Fantoni, to the point that he was nemed "deep Fantoni", from the software "deep finesse".
I have watched again the vugraph of the last Bermuda Bowl and did not notice a bad performance by them, they were simply very unlucky as the opponents called two slam below 50% and made them.
2) Mme Lavazza is a very whealty person and a major sponsor of Italian bridge and probably her position as a representative of the IBF is due to that. There are some positive points about it: maybe Italy has been enjoying such a strong team in recent years because all the money involved allowed champions like BD, VL anfd FN to dedicate totally to the game without any financial worry.
Still it seems to me and apparently other that she has somehow abused of her position here in order to get rid of Fantunes and insert a player that is not taken seriously in any way even by its own team mates, as the original poster states here
3) Mr Angelini is also a major sponsor in Italian bridge, and again many thanks to him for that. My main point is that if Mme Lavazza for whatever reason wanted to get rid of Fantunes, there would have been in Italy dozens of pairs able to compete decently in this event, without having their team mates complaining and have them benched out.
In the interview linked several times here Mme Lavazza, without been asked, has pointed out "the inclusion of Mr Angelini did not bring any financial advantage to the IBF", which in politishianish means: "Mr Angelini has pay a boat load of money to be here"

Does anyone know whether BD and LV would have represented Italy in the European Championship if the decision making had been taken out of the hands of Lavazza? Players have a funny habit of being loyal to their sponsors. Especially if it is true that Lavazza makes it possible for these players to devote something close to full time to playing bridge, I can see them declining an invitation to play if their sponsor is removed from her role as selector.

mike777, on Jun 27 2008, 10:43 PM, said:

Why, pray tell, is how the Italians choose their teams any business of anyone else?

NickRW, on Jun 29 2008, 03:07 AM, said:

Now that I think about it again, one person selecting the team to represent the nation isn't something I haven't seen before.

Rossoneri, on Jun 29 2008, 01:23 AM, said:

Perhaps not in bridge, but isn't it quite common in football (soccer)?

Walddk, on Jun 28 2008, 07:55 AM, said:

Clearly Mrs Lavazza knows something we do not know. It is difficult to imagine that bridge performance alone could justify Fantunes to be sidelined. They brought new ideas to bidding, they are fun to watch , they were the less arrogant italian pair and perform extremely well against weaker teams (which with the current euroship format is an asset).
What is intriguing is that things could evolve so quickly; Angelini was not an unknown entity for the rest of the team and they should have been committed to winning or losing with him. Guess Italy has yet to discover sportmanship (as also confirmed by the report on the the Norway game)

There are some differences between football teams and bridge teams. For example:

(1) The football coach is normally selected for his ability to coach a winning team, knowledge of strategy, evaluation of players, and so forth. The bridge team sponsor is usually selected based on amount of money spent on bridge players and gifted to the league. I think there would be a big outcry if the owner of one of the professional clubs was made national football team coach (or worse, put on the national team as a player!) just because he has a lot of money, yet this is exactly what happens in bridge.

(2) The football team is typically selected by the coaching staff, but it is pretty widely known who the top players are and a failure to select an individual who is obviously among the country's best could cause the coach to get fired. While the identity of the country's best bridge players is also often known, a bridge sponsor is pretty much free to select whomever he or she pleases for a team and is not normally subject to the same kind of scrutiny.

(3) Football coaches take a lot of the blame when their team loses. If a favored team (like Italy in both football and bridge!) takes an early-round tumble, then the football coach is usually out of a job. The bridge sponsor isn't. This puts a lot more pressure on the football coach to select the best possible team.

(4) Football coaches (and players) are typically quite well-compensated for their efforts. Bridge players aren't, which gives them the incentive to try and play with someone who will cover their expenses (i.e. a sponsor).

gnasher, on Jun 29 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

Do we even need to talk about soccer lol.

I meant it for bridge. And sadly, it might happen again sometime soon in front of my eyes again.

Hi all,
Nunes said "all is possible" when asked whether it was still possible to change out players on the Italian team for the 2009 BB, lol.

Thanks,
Dan

before the BB 2009 there will be Beijing.
interesting detail: the Italian team is not yet registered.
http://www.ecatsbridge.org/Documents/files...g/OpenTeams.pdf

Rossoneri, on Jun 28 2008, 07:23 PM, said:

Its been quite some time since I've read the story, but I seem to recall that Ira Corn originally selected (recruited) the Dallas Aces to represent the USA many years ago.

However, that could have just been to assemble the team and not to actually represent the US, not sure how the qualifying was done that long ago.

bid_em_up, on Jul 2 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

Actually you left out one key word........."attempt"


He formed a team to attempt to represent the USA. They still had to win the trials.

For what it is worth, a new user, who has registered with the nickname fulvio2002, has sent a "report to moderator" the following message dealing with this thread. My assumption is he meant to post it rather than send it to me, so I post it in below. IF this is who it reports to be, is not yet totally clear.

Quote

Hopefully we will see FN play more than just the trans-nats - oh, wait, the trans-nats are trans-gender

cicus, on Jun 27 2008, 03:49 AM, said:

Well, I am as good at predicting as ever. The Italian team for Beijing:

Maria Teresa LAVAZZA NPC
Massimo ORTENSI Coach
Giorgio DUBOIN
Fulvio FANTONI
Lorenzo LAURIA
Claudio NUNES
Antonio SEMENTA
Alfredo VERSACE

Hi,
Thanks for the update. What's your source?

Thanks,
Dan

Probably this

karaprens, on Jul 21 2008, 06:23 PM, said:

Yes.