[Gerben42]

I must be missing some important point since this is so obvious that people must have thought of this before and implemented it.

What if you respond 1♥ after 1m when you have 6-9 HCP, 5♠+4♥?

Why are these hands a problem?

---

You have a 4-4 fit in ♥ yet standard bidding will give you this auction:
1♣ - 1♠ - 2♣ - Pass

This is why some pairs have reserved a bid for this hand in their system (which means they cannot use that bid for something else!).

Solution: After 1m respond 1♥.

First: Suppose partner responds 1NT. Now you have 5♠ so you rebid 2♠.
1m - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♠ is no longer a reverse bid but now shows this weak hand. Is this a problem? No! Reverse hands can use Checkback Stayman / NMF instead to check for partner's 3rd ♥ (or maybe the now free sequence 1m - 1♠ - 1NT - 2♥?)

Second: What if partner responds 2 in his minor or opens 1♦ and rebids 2♣? Now you are in the same situation as before, except that you have checked for 4-card fits in BOTH majors instead of just ♠. This is an improvement, for example on the hand shown above. You might have lost some 5-3 ♠ fit but if you are not raising on 3 cards a lot you would have lost those anyway.

Also after interference I don't see many losing situations for this treatment.
So... why isn't this popular?

[luke warm]

if you play ckback, bidding your way shows what you say... whether there are other theoretical considerations or not, i'm not qualified to say

[awm]

It seems like there are two styles of continuations after auctions like 1♣-1♠ or 1♣-1♥:

(1) Frequently raise on three cards. Other rebids tend to deny three card support, unless holding substantial extras (this includes 1♠ rebid). Opener can rebid 1NT with a singleton on awkward hands (say 1435 after 1♣-1♠). If responder bids the major again, this will essentially always show six (or more) cards; normally do not rebid a five card suit after opener's 1NT rebid. The advantages of this method are:

- Better results when opener has an awkward hand and rebids 1NT instead of a 5-card minor
- Better results when responder is weak and has a five card major, and opener has 3
- Better results when the 4-3 major fit plays better than 1NT or 2-minor
- 2M rebid after 1NT tends to show few losers (shape) and opener can bid on with Hx/aces

The main disadvantages are:

- Occasionally play 2♥ on a 4-3 fit, when holding a 4-4 fit in spades (and responder is min)
- Worse results when responder is weak with only four card major and 2M plays worse than 1NT
- Normally can't reach 2M when responder holds 5 and opener 2, which may outplay 1NT

To play method (1), you need good methods and substantial discussion about bidding after opener raises responder's major. Since this could be a 4-3 fit, you need to get out of the major (and into 3NT) when it's right. On the other hand, there's no great need to search for 3 card support in opener's hand after non-raise rebids, which simplifies checkback in other sequences (like when opener rebids his minor).

(2) Almost never raise on three cards. The only likely 3-card raise is when holding a two-suited hand in the minors with a singleton in the other major. The 1NT rebid almost never contains a singleton in partner's major (prefer to rebid a 5-card minor on awkward hands). Responder will normally rebid a five-card major when opener bids 1NT. The advantages of this method are:

- Better results when opener is balanced and 2M (on a 5-2 fit) plays better than 1NT.
- Will never miss a 4-4 spade fit in order to play in hearts.
- Responder can blast game when his major response is raised, even on 4-cards (no checkback)

The main disadvantages are:

- Occasionally lose a 5-3 major fit, when opener's 2nd bid is a suit
- Worse results when 2M (on a 4-3 fit) would outplay 1NT

Playing this style, you need good checkback methods after opener rebids 1NT (to avoid playing in 3NT with a suit wide open, when 4M on a 4-3 would be better). You also need good methods after opener's suit rebid, to reach the major suit contract when it's right -- note that many partnerships do not have good methods after opener rebids his first suit and you really need them here. Also, 4th suit forcing to game (while it has many advantages) will tend to miss 5-3 major fits on invitational hands, playing 2NT instead of 2M or 3M fairly often.

---------

Anyways, it seems like playing style (2), your canape responses would actually work quite well. Since opener almost never raises on three cards, you won't play any silly 4-3 heart fits holding a 5-4 spade fit. The 5-3 spade fits you miss on auctions like 1♣-1♥-2♣ are fits you would've missed anyway, because opener would have rebid 2♣ over a 1♠ response rather than raise on three. I don't see any problems with it here.

Of course, the canape responses will not work at all playing style (1), as you can often end up in hearts instead of spades, or in a silly minor contract instead of spades. Also, in style (1) you tend not to have as many problems with the reverse flannery hands, because opener will raise spades on three (you always find 5-3 spade fits bidding 1♠) and opener will normally rebid an off-shape 1NT with the awkward hands (like the one you give as an example) after which a non-forcing 2♥ rebid gets you to hearts.

My personal preference is for style (1), but if you're from the school of thought that hates three card raises and prefer style (2), I think the canape responses have merit.

[mike777]

Gerben42, on Apr 3 2005, 05:37 PM, said:

I must be missing some important point since this is so obvious that people must have thought of this before and implemented it.

What if you respond 1♥ after 1m when you have 6-9 HCP, 5♠+4♥?

Why are these hands a problem?
<!-- EASTWEST begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> ????? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> Unknown </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> Kxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> AQx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> KJxxx </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Kxxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> QJxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> xxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> x </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- EASTWEST end -->
You have a 4-4 fit in ♥ yet standard bidding will give you this auction:
1♣ - 1♠ - 2♣ - Pass

This is why some pairs have reserved a bid for this hand in their system (which means they cannot use that bid for something else!).

Solution: After 1m respond 1♥.

First: Suppose partner responds 1NT. Now you have 5♠ so you rebid 2♠.
1m - 1♥ - 1NT - 2♠ is no longer a reverse bid but now shows this weak hand. Is this a problem? No! Reverse hands can use Checkback Stayman / NMF instead to check for partner's 3rd ♥ (or maybe the now free sequence 1m - 1♠ - 1NT - 2♥?)

Second: What if partner responds 2 in his minor or opens 1♦ and rebids 2♣? Now you are in the same situation as before, except that you have checked for 4-card fits in BOTH majors instead of just ♠. This is an improvement, for example on the hand shown above. You might have lost some 5-3 ♠ fit but if you are not raising on 3 cards a lot you would have lost those anyway.

Also after interference I don't see many losing situations for this treatment.
So... why isn't this popular?

Perhaps I am missing something. Are you not losing playing in 4-3 h or 5-2, 5-3 spade fit many times when p rebids minor?



My p taught me:
1Minor=2h as reverse flannery so now
1Minor= 2 raise =weak
1Minor =3 raise = more shape, weak
1Minor=jump in other minor =game force =criss cross
1Minor =2s=invite in minor

This method gives up WJS which I never liked since it preempts p more than opp.

[Fluffy]

I have heard of a good theory long ago that said you should bid 1♥ when you had 5-5M and very weak. The theory obviously has some flaws and advantages.

To solve 5♠ and 4♥ I know 2 ways to fix theproblem:

1m-2♥ = 5♠-4♥ 5-8

and..

1♣-1♠
2♣-2♥ = non forcing.