[arrows]

I found that it's particular hard to bid a strong one level opeing hand in
natuaral system, since the opener has to jump in the next round and leaving
little room to maneuvre below game, esp. when holding an unbalanced hand,
it's not easy to investigate every strain below game level.

Some problems are:
1.
1♦-1♥
4♣

Splinter but is it ♠AK2 ♥KQ105 ♦AKJ73 ♣ 3
or ♠A82 ♥KQ105 ♦AK973 ♣ 3 ?
The 2nd hand definitely worth a game bid too, and one also
wants partner to have the information helps evaluate his/her high cards
correctly for further decisions.

2.
1♣-1♥
4♣

Is it: ♠ A4 ♥ KQ63 ♦ 7 ♣ AK10965
or: ♠ AK3 ♥ KQ63 ♦ -- ♣ AK10965
Here, there's also significant strength difference between these two hands.
Some may argue that the 2nd hand worth a strong two open, maybe, but I
can't see how that would make things easier.

3.
1♦-1♠
3NT

Is it ♠2 ♥K109 ♦AKQ1075 ♣ AJ5
or ♠2 ♥AK9 ♦AK10975 ♣ AQJ ?
For the first hand, 3NT is just a shot;
for the 2nd hand, 3NT is bid by power.

4. holding this hand: ♠ AJT ♥ K84 ♦ AKJ1083 ♣ 7
What you going to do after
1♦-1♥
?

3♦ is probably the most descriptive rebid, but we can easily miss the heart
game because of it. 3H is uncomfortable, especially when partner has only
4 baby hearts, we may end up with playing a silly contract.

5. holding this hand :
♠ K3 ♥ 4 ♦ AKJ10653 ♣ AK5
what you going to do after
1♦-1♠
?

We probably cannot risk 3♦, because it is not forcing. Perhaps temporize a
3♣ jumpshift is the best thing we can do. But that create new problems,
when partner hold ♣ suit and a fair hand, s/he becomes anxious because it
could be silly to pass over 3NT on a phantom fit.

[arrows]

I think it might be better to have some simple method to take care of this.
Maybe we can expand the sequence 1X-1Y-2NT. I guess this is no new
idea, but I am going to totally release this sequence
from showing a balance hand.

First, some dirty work has to be done, make the adjustment of the notrump
ladder, so that we won't need 1X-1Y-2NT to be used showing some range
of balanced hand. The following is a possible example of the notrump ladder
we may use to cooperate power reverse 2NT:

weak(12-14P): open 1NT
medium(15-18P): open 1 suit, rebid 1NT
strong: (19-21P): open 2NT
super: forcing opening bid (2C or 2D, as you wish), etc.

[arrows]

Now we define that 1X-1Y-2NT asking responder to puppet 3C
(with one exception, will explained later), so that we can have:

1. Big splinters
1♦-1♥
2NT-3♣
4♣
Showing it's GF hand by high cards, plus the side short.
Therefore, a direct splinter showing GI hand by high cards, but commit to game
because of the side short.

Also, given the notrump ladder above, opener's direct game raise, for instance
here, 1♦-1♥-4♥ is always 5422.

[arrows]

2. big fit-showing

1♦-1♥
2NT-3♣
4♦

shows excellent ♦ suit with fit in heart, a pure maximum opening hand.

whereas:
1♦-1♥
4♦
shows the same type with less high card concentration.

[arrows]

similarly, we can have

3. power 3NT, 2NT relay then rebid 3NT instead of jumping to 3NT directly.

4. Comfortable invitation with 3 trumps.
Delayed jumping rebid imply fit. for instance,
1♦-1♥
2NT-3♣
3♦
opener shows an invitational hands with 6+ good ♦ and 3♥.
therefore, after
1♦-1♥
3♦
we have no concern about 5-3 fit in heart might be missed.

When the opening suit is ♣, we have a problem, so the exception about
the relay is used here. when the opening suit is ♣, over power reverse 2NT,
responder only relay when s/he has a weak hand and no 5 cards in the major,

otherwise, with 5+ card major and a weak hand, rebid the major at 3 level,
with extras(accept GI), rebid 3♦

[arrows]

Finally,

5 Jumpshift with confidence.
with:♠ K3 ♥ 4 ♦ AKJ10653 ♣ AK5
1♦-1♠
2NT-3♣
3♥

Opener shows a GF hand with long ♦, strong ♣(but not real suit),
weak/short ♥(the 4th suit) and tolerance in ♠.

What if we switch the ♥ and ♣ holdings?
♠ K3 ♥ AK5 ♦ AKJ10653 ♣ 4
1♦-1♠
3♥
I don't remember I really have ever used this sequence naturally, or
even for whatever other meaning.

This shows a GF hand with long ♦, strong ♥(but not real suit),
weak/short ♣(the 4th suit] and tolerance in ♠

now if we bid:
1♦-1♠
3♣
it's genuine natural bid, promise 5+-4+ in 2 suits.

[arrows]

continue with the 5th case above:
what if we have
♠ AK5 ♥ K3 ♦ AKJ10653 ♣ 4
open 1♦ and partner response 1♥?

Since 3♠ would be splinter for ♥ with GI high card strength.
we have to rebid 2 ♠ here and hope to identify our hand later.

Definitely some other catches out there,
for example, one of them would be:

1♦-1♥
2NT-3♣
3♠

This sequence is ambiguous for :
is it a big splinter in ♠? or is it showing a GF hand with long ♦
strong ♣, weak/short ♠ and only tolerance in ♥?
(maybe we can identify it next round?)

Anyway, IMO, the cost of expanding 1X-1Y-2NT is very reasonable,
(losing 1 point accuracy in notrump ladder). and this structure needs
further investigation and refinement.
I 'd appreciate it if people can contribute their ideas on these issues.

[hrothgar]

I think that you will enouncted problems if you chose to always use 2NT as your artificial Power reverse.

Consider the following 2 bidding sequences

Auction 1
1♣ - 1♠
2NT

Auction 2
1♦ - 1♥
2NT

Your response structure will need to get very complex to compensate for the difference in bidding space and the nimber of different hand types that need to be shown.

I agree that there may be merit in using an artifical checkback of some kind, however, you might want to consider using raise +1 to show the Power reverse.

For example

1♣ - 1♠ - 2NT = power reverse
1♦ - 1♥ - 2♠ = power reverse
1♣ - 1♦ - 2♦ = power reverse

Alternatively, you could treat the lowest level reverse the artifical asking bid

1♣ - 1♥ - 2♦ or
1♦ - 1♠ - 2♥

[Chamaco]

arrows, on Jan 16 2005, 08:26 PM, said:

I found that it's particular hard to bid a strong one level opeing hand in
natuaral system, since the opener has to jump in the next round and leaving
little room to maneuvre below game, esp. when holding an unbalanced hand,
it's not easy to investigate every strain below game level.

Try using "Multireverse", e.g. first "reverse suit" is used as artificial reverse.

Responder can relay to ask hand type or make a weak bid (suit rebid or 2NT Ingberman).

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 04:27 AM, said:

Try using "Multireverse", e.g. first "reverse suit" is used as artificial reverse.

Responder can relay to ask hand type or make a weak bid (suit rebid or 2NT Ingberman).

Hi Mauro !

Where can we find a description of "Multireverse" ?

Tx in advance,

Alain

[Chamaco]

joker_gib, on Jan 17 2005, 10:29 AM, said:

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 04:27 AM, said:

Try using "Multireverse", e.g. first "reverse suit" is used as artificial reverse.

Responder can relay to ask hand type or make a weak bid (suit rebid or 2NT Ingberman).

Hi Mauro !

Where can we find a description of "Multireverse" ?

Tx in advance,

Alain

I made a short english translation but right now I have it at my home PC (accessible only next weekend).

I emailed it to Ben and to Gerben, perhaps they can post it here before I get back home this weekend, otherwise just wait for a few days. :-)

[mila85]

arrows, on Jan 16 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

1. 
1♦-1♥
4♣
Splinter but is it  ♠AK2 ♥KQ105 ♦AKJ73 ♣ 3
or                  ♠A82 ♥KQ105 ♦AK973 ♣ 3 ?
The 2nd hand definitely worth a game bid too, and one also
wants partner to have the information helps evaluate his/her high cards
correctly for further decisions.

I use 3c as a spliner. 2c is forcing so I don't need 3c natural.

Quote

2.
1♣-1♥
4♣

Is it:  ♠ A4 ♥ KQ63 ♦ 7 ♣ AK10965
or:    ♠ AK3 ♥ KQ63 ♦ -- ♣ AK10965
Here, there's also significant strength difference between these two hands.
Some may argue that the 2nd hand worth a strong two open, maybe, but I
can't see how that would make things easier.

Yes. 2nd hand I open 2c.
Between the hands is difference 1 looser. And and this is the differnce between 2c opening and maximum of 1c opening.

Quote

3.
1♦-1♠
3NT

Is it ♠2 ♥K109 ♦AKQ1075 ♣ AJ5
or    ♠2 ♥AK9 ♦AK10975 ♣ AQJ ?
For the first hand, 3NT is just a shot;
for the 2nd hand, 3NT is bid by power.

My 2d multi contains strong two in a minor. So with the second hand I open 2d, 1d-1s/3nt shows the first hand.

Quote

4. holding this hand: ♠ AJT ♥ K84 ♦ AKJ1083 ♣ 7
What you going to do after
1♦-1♥
?

3♦ is probably the most descriptive rebid, but we can easily miss the heart
game because of it. 3H is uncomfortable, especially when partner has only
4 baby hearts, we may end up with playing a silly contract.

Yes, this is the problem. I wrote about very similar hands and bidding in beg-int forum last week...

Quote

5. holding this hand :
♠ K3 ♥ 4 ♦ AKJ10653 ♣ AK5
what you going to do after
1♦-1♠
?

We probably cannot risk 3♦, because it is not forcing. Perhaps temporize a
3♣ jumpshift is the best thing we can do. But that create new problems,
when partner hold ♣ suit and a fair hand, s/he becomes anxious because it
could be silly to pass over 3NT on a phantom fit.

Open 2d.

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 06:35 AM, said:

joker_gib, on Jan 17 2005, 10:29 AM, said:

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 04:27 AM, said:

Try using "Multireverse", e.g. first "reverse suit" is used as artificial reverse.

Responder can relay to ask hand type or make a weak bid (suit rebid or 2NT Ingberman).

Hi Mauro !

Where can we find a description of "Multireverse" ?

Tx in advance,

Alain

I made a short english translation but right now I have it at my home PC (accessible only next weekend).

I emailed it to Ben and to Gerben, perhaps they can post it here before I get back home this weekend, otherwise just wait for a few days. :-)

Multireverse







5 possible artificial sequences:



1C:1D

2H



1C:1H

2D



1C:1S

2D



1D:1H

2S



1D:1S

2H



The following 3 sequences are NOT multireverse but have a natural meaning



1C:1D

2S

because it is not the “first” up-the line reverse suit.

Hence it is a “natural” reverse jumpshift



1C:1H

3H

because it is not a new “suit”



1C:1NT

2D

is also natural because Multireverse does not apply after a 1NT response



Types of hands included in Multireverse:



1) “Real Reverse” = opener bids his “real” second suit, EXCLUDING 3 card support in responder’s suit

2) “Real Reverse” with 3 card support

3) single-suited reverse , excludes side 4 card suit

4) Balanced reverse with fit for responder (= 18-19/20 balanced with 4 card support)

5) Unbalanced reverse with fit = 54xx, 64xx or better with 4 card support



6) 6-5 hands





After the Multireverse



Responder has the following alternatives, similar to advanced SAYC (using Ingberman), except for the use of the relay:



a) 1st step = game force relais = only positive bid

weak bids, offering a signoff

a. own suit rebid at the 2-level

b. 2NT Ingberman (or “Lebensohl over a reverse”): opener is supposed to bid 3C with any minimum reverse, or describe naturally his hand bypassing 3C with a non-minimum reverse. If opener shows a minimum by bidding 3C, responder’s bid is a signoff.



The structure after responder’s relay is:



a) step 1 = “Real Reverse” without fit

Opener’s 1st suit rebid = always single suiter

c) Any 4 level bid is a cuebid (not necessarily a splinter), showing unbalanced hand (54xx, 64xx or better) and 4 card fit in responder’s suit

d) Raising responder’s suit to 3 shows a “ Real Reverse” WITH fit

e) 1st available NT bid ( only if it is not the first step which would show real reverse” without fit): 4 card support in balanced hand

f) Rebidding the 2nd suit = natural, 65 reverse hand

[joker_gib]

Tx a lot, Ben and Mauro

Alain

[joker_gib]

Looks great !

What is the meaning you give to :

1♦ 1♥
3♦

vs

1♦ 1♥
2♠ 3♣
3♦

Single suiter with fit ??

[Chamaco]

Quote

1♦ 1♥
3♦

I'd play this as good semisolid diamonds, distributional hand (5-5.5 losers) but not more than 15 (or a bad 16) hcp.
It is very useful to be able to jump to 3 with a suit of good quality with a limited hand: it is both obstructive to opps and descriptive for pard, who can count on a full pening and a source of tricks in NT.

I would play the single suiter with 3 card fit as shown by simply raising partner's suit to 3 ("real reverse with fit"); if I had a 64xx hand, then I'd cue at 4 level to show 54xx/64xx or better hand.

Quote

1♦ 1♥
2♠ 3♣
3♦

According to the notes this sequence shows a single suiter without 4 card-fit.
However I would rather use it to deny 3 card fit, becaus I do nt want to lump the single suiter with 3 card support in the jump rebid to 3m.

However I suppose it is just a matter of tastes.

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 11:07 AM, said:

I would play the single suiter with 3 card fit as shown by simply raising partner's suit to 3 ("real reverse with fit

Don't you show 5 (1st) -4 (2nd) -3 (raise) -1 hand by raising partner ?

[Chamaco]

joker_gib, on Jan 17 2005, 04:16 PM, said:

Chamaco, on Jan 17 2005, 11:07 AM, said:

I would play the single suiter with 3 card fit as shown by simply raising partner's suit to 3 ("real reverse with fit

Don't you show 5 (1st) -4 (2nd) -3 (raise) -1 hand by raising partner ?

When the relay starts with 3C, things get a bit more awkward.

This is because the system was not born to include Ingberman, so, in the origin, in the sequence u mention, 2NT would be a positive relay, and other suit rebid or preferences, would be to play.

So you have choices:

1) remove 2NT Ingberman, and use 2NT (not 3C) as relay when the opener rebids 2S

2) use 2NT ingberman, use 3C as relay over 2S opener rebid , and use the 1m-1M-3m jump rebid to show single suited reverse with 3 card fit.

3) use 2NT Ingberman, use jump rebid to 3m as limited hand and good suit, and modify slightly the relay responses when the relay is 3C.

I think you can use the option you are more comfortable with.

[joker_gib]

Yes, also an option !

Tx Mauro

Alain

[arrows]

multi-reverse seems having more room,
but signoff stuff is necessary after reverse and it complicate the problem...