[jetkro]

This auction is often problematic for me:

1C - 1H - 1S - 3H
??

3H was a weak bid.
Opener has 4 card spade support.
How does he differentiate between different strength hands?
Is a double invitational? i.e maximal overcall double.
Thanks.

[HeartA]

imho, dbl=invitational, 3S=competitive.

[jtfanclub]

jetkro, on Nov 19 2004, 01:16 AM, said:

This auction is often problematic for me:

1C - 1H - 1S - 3H
??

3H was a weak bid.
Opener has 4 card spade support.
How does he differentiate between different strength hands?
Is a double invitational? i.e maximal overcall double.
Thanks.

From weakest to strongest (keep in mind that I'm not expert):

Pass- really weak.
3S- Competitive.
X- Stronger...wants to be in game across a decent hand.
4S- Wants to be in game, not slam.
4 Diamonds/Hearts. Some interest in slam.
4NT: RKC in Spades.

[jetkro]

Thanks JT.

Your scheme seems very logical.
Could you tell me however, what the average point expectation is for the 1 spade
responder? Or should opener assume that responder has 6-9 points and just bid accordingly? I mean, what does "decent " mean in this setting?

[inquiry]

jetkro, on Nov 19 2004, 12:43 PM, said:

Thanks JT.

Your scheme seems very logical.
Could you tell me however, what the average point expectation is for the 1 spade
responder? Or should opener assume that responder has 6-9 points and just bid accordingly? I mean, what does "decent " mean in this setting?

I don't think JT's plan is playable. Opener apparently is not allowed to bid over 3♥ without a spade fit. You know, sometimes you simply will not have such a fit (well he does have 3NT available I guess).

I agree 3♠ can be a stretch and is competitive. I agree that double might have support for spades, but not enough to force game.

But for me, Double is takeout asking partner to do something wise... and new suits by me or rebids of my suit, are just that.. my suits....

Ben

[Fluffy]

Double= take out, or support double depends on agreements, either case it is 16+.

3♠ shows just 4 cards in ♠, but a non really minimum, so about 14-16.

[jtfanclub]

Quote

I don't think JT's plan is playable. Opener apparently is not allowed to bid over 3♥ without a spade fit. You know, sometimes you simply will not have such a fit (well he does have 3NT available I guess).

And 4 clubs and 5 clubs. You have to have rebids of your suit available.
I just included the options where you have 4 spades.

Quote

But for me, Double is takeout asking partner to do something wise...

You have to tell partner something...the one club bid is so nebulous that it's very hard for partner to know what to do. It's true, in a regular partnership with a very good partner, you can figure he'll know the negative inferences well enough to figure out what to do, but that's asking a lot of a beginning partnership.

An X says you can support spades (at least 3), but you don't know where the right place to play is. You're strong enough that if partner has a defensive hand that doesn't think you can make game, you can afford for partner to leave in the X. It's known as a support double, and IMHO it's better than takeout when three suits have been bid.

Quote

and new suits by me or rebids of my suit, are just that.. my suits....

Well, 4 hearts is clearly not a new suit. I would argue that you'd never bid 4 diamonds unless you have some interest in slam- it's just too high.

Fluffy's got the points down. Note, though, that your shape is going to be more important than your points. A small doubleton in hearts is terrible, it's worth something like -3 points. On the other hand, a singleton diamond with four spades is awesome- it means you're going to ruff diamonds in the short hand, and your partner can probably ruff hearts.

[luke warm]

1C - 1H - 1S - 3H
??

my take on this is different from a lot of the others... i either have
1) my bid
2) more than my bid

i will bid 3s if i have some distributional or other reason to do so, meaning 4 card support (i'm giving ops 9 hearts + 8 spades = 17 tt)... if i don't have spade support, and if i *only* have my bid (not much, if anything, extra), i pass... if i don't have spade support and have more than my bid, i double... this isn't ironclad at imps, but pretty much is at matchpoints... i can't afford to lose a board by 30 points (or even 10)

so if i double, it's cooperative and shows partner that i have more than my bidding to date has shown... partner knows that and does what seems right