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stayman question thoughts please

#1 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 12:47

I just had a thought.

Bidding goes

1NT (15 - 17 balanced) - p - 2C (stayman) - p - 2D(denies a 4 card major)

1NT (15 - 17 balanced) - p - 2C (stayman) - p - 3D(can you define this in a partenship agreement)

1NT (15 - 17 balanced) - p - 2C (stayman) - p - 3C(can you define this in a partenship agreement)

i.e. my thoughts were it could be

3/3 in majors

4/5 or 4/4 good minor suits (2/2 in majors is not very balanced I know)

4/4 majors max hand

4/5 majors min or max hand

Don't be to harsh on me LOL, I was watching lessons on smollen and this thought just occoured to me, so I wanted some opinions from all of you
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 13:00

I believe Stayman originally had more responses than the usual 2D/H/S. However, in the long run people realized this was a bad idea, since it made it very difficult for responder to continue the bidding, due to lack of space.

In light of that, I think any extension to Stayman responses must therefore show a very, very precise type of hand, say,

1NT 2C
2NT = 5-4 minor, good suits, max
3m = 6-card minor, good suit, max
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 13:05

Since the stayman bidder can be VERY weak, you shouldn't go to 3-level imo. 1NT opener just shows his hand (unless playing some fancy stuff ofcourse), and that's it. If you'd make your stayman "invitational or better", then you could use these bids without any problem.

The suggestions whereagles made seem quite fine as well, but I wouldn't use it - no need to :D
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 14:49

Yeah; as long as responder isn't promising an invitational hand; yes we all bid 2 on xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, x, so we need the safety of the 2 level. Reasonable ideas otherwise though.
"Phil" on BBO
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 15:30

With some regular partners I do use different responses to Stayman, namely:

2D: no four-card major.
2H: four hearts, denies 4 spades.
2S: four spades, denies 4 hearts.
2NT: both majors, minimum.
3C: both majors, maximum.

We play these responses because they fit well with the rest of our 1NT-system, which is non-standard. Of course, it may happen that the Stayman-bidder is weakish with short clubs and was trying to land in a safe place, but at least in those cases you have a major suit fit, and often 2. We've played this system for perhaps 3 years now, and this has never been a problem.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2004-October-19, 19:03

At one point, I used to play 2NT as 5332 with 5 clubs and 2 diamonds. This made garbage stayman safe...you didn't have to worry about a 4-2 diamond fit. I also played 3 and 3 as six card suits...and yes, I still open 1NT with 6322 on occassion.

Now I play Precision, so garbage stayman isn't really necessary: you just pass and wait for the runout. So I dropped these bids. Using 2NT as a max is handy, though, with 3 and 3 responses for 2NT asking which major (weak) and which major (strong) respectively.
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