[inquiry]

This is an experimental approach. Thinking could use some input...

We are all become use to transfer advances... here is the way equality methods respond to take out double by partner... first if the next hand passes...

1♣-DBL-Pass-?

• 1♦, 1♥, 1♠, 1NT all like you play them
  
• 2♣ = transfer to 2♦, better than 1♦ and can be very good...
  
• 2♦ = transfer to 2♥, can be very good
  
• 2♥ = transfer to 2♠ and can be very good
  
• 2♠ = balance hand, not showing spades, forcing... to at least 2NT
  
• 2NT = two suiter, ♦ and ♥, implicatin diamonds longer than hearts
  
• 3♣ = two suiter, both majors, implication hearts longer
  
• 3♦ = diamonds and hearts, hearts longer, forcing
  
• 3♥ = spades and hearts, spades longer, not focing (show spades then bid hearts to force)
  
• 3♠ = looking for club stopper for 3NT.. think long running some suit, probalby diamonds

Ok, that is a little fun. You can maybe work out other auctions working those rules, but here is where it is fun...Your partner makes takeout double and next hand bids 1♥. Maybe he has hearts, maybe not.. here is how we play....

1♣-DBL-1♥-?

• DBL = spades
  
• 1♠ = balanced ahnd too good for 1NT, or diamonds
  
• 1NT = natural
  
• 2♣ = shows HEARTS desipte their bid
  
• 2♦ shows good spades (like a normal jump to 2♠ OR BETTER, 1RF
  
• 2♥ = shows Spade-diamonds, longer spades
  
• 2♠ = shows hearts and diamonds, longer hearts
  
• 2NT = shows hearts and diamonds longer diamonds
  
• 3C = shows both majors longer hearts
  
• 3D = shows spades and diamonds, longer diamonds, Force
  
• 3H = shows hearts and spades longer spades
  
• 3S = request for partner to bid 3NT with a club stopper

Ben

[inquiry]

This is a hand that nikos59 nominated for hand of the week in weak four...

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
Pass Pass 1♦ Dbl
1♠ Pass 2♠ Pass
3♦ 3♥ Dbl 3NT
Pass Pass Pass

The one spade psyche and NS never found their spade fit.

---

Of course, I don't like the double with South's hand (to make Takeout double with a singleton in an unbid major is, well, not something I encourage). On this hand I would bid 1NT as south RAPTOR, showing an unknown major and longer minor... But, how to deal with 1♠ on this auction?

North has nothing much (wasted diamond queen), but does have ruffing value and five hearts. Here north could trott out 2♣ to show hearts (2♦ would show ♠s.)

Let's imagine north wanted to compete in hearts, and mention his spades. What has the bids here meant before nikos posted this hand?

1♣-DBL-1♠-?

• DBL - diamonds or balanced inappopriate for 1NT or 3NT
  
• 1NT - natural, nf
  
• 2C - shows hearts, 1RF
  
• 2D - shows spades, 1RF
  
• 2H - hearts and diamonds balanced, NF
  
• 2S - Michaels, hearts and diamonds equal legnth, but not balanced, forcing
  
• 2NT - Unusual, longer diamonds than hearts
  
• 3C - both majors
  
• 3D - diamonds and hearts, longer hearts good hand.
  
• 3H - hearts and diamonds, longer hearts
  
• 3S - bid 3NT with club stopper
  
• 3NT - to play

The scheme has too many ways to show both hearts and diamonds (2H, 2S, 2NT, 3D, 3H). The distinction was distributional, with 2H and 2S being fairly balanced, other more unbalanced. This scheme allows double fit and best fit to be found immediately. But the question becomes is there a need for a major two suiter, non-forcing response over 1M after our double. If so, 2♥ (regardless if opponent called 1♥ or 1♠ over the double to show both majors, not forcing (as opposed to 3♣. The trade-off is the loss of the non-forcing relatively balanced (4432) bid showing hearts and diamonds with 2♥. I think this tradeoff is ok, because if you are 2443 and weak, just showing the major (where the fit is likely to be) is best (by bidding 2♣ by the way)...

What should 2H and 2S show? The 2S bid is reserved for "michales" over the 1♠ showing hearts and diamonds (unbid suits). Since this is forcing to three level, with a one suited hearts or diamonds, you can show that at one level with transfer advance, and then bid more. This hand by nikos has me thinking that 2H should be both majors, and NONFORCING, and not even strongly invitational (see 3♣). This might be a better approach. On this hand, north is a bit light, but has LOTT protection if he bids 2H. After this 2H bid, NS have found spades,,, the problem will be to stop in exactly 3.

As an aside.. note over 2♣, there is a free bid (2♦) which opener can use as some kind of relay/Game try below TWO in our supposed fit. And if they DBL 2♣ that gives us two extra ways (rdbl, pass), So.. doubler can try to say.. I have greatly stretched, or express a number of other values with fit.. many schemes are possible, here are some experimental meanings....

(1C)-X-(1S)-2C* <<----- transfer showing hearts
(Pas)-?

• 2H - weakish initial takeout double, less than sound opening bid
  
• 3H - Semi-preemptive/blocking bid. Advancer bids game with 24+ ZAR fit points
  
• 2S - game force heart raise: you can get cute here, this could be optional blackwood where first step is an attempt by advancer NOT to respond to blackwood.. next step forces blackwood response. Or a range ask using 2HCP range in steps, or mabye a ZAR point range ask, with 2 or 3 point ranges... REMEMBER 2S will be a huge hand, cause other ways to bid with less
  
• 2NT - biggish balanced hand, not a heart fit per se
  
• 3C - Game force heart fit
  
• 2D - more or less tell me more.. with 24 zar or less, bid 2H, overcaller can then raise to to give a stronger invite than an immediate 3♥

Now, you may not like zar points, use loser count, cover cards, hcp, or what ever range stuff you want.. shorten the options if you like. Or really blow them out.. imagine opener doubles 2C, you can now use a forcing pass by overcaller to change range etc.. so for example.. whatever 2C-P-2D means, the slower way... 2C-X-P-P-XX-P-2D is "stronger". What ever 2C-P-2H means, the slower way... 2C-X-P-P-XX-P-2H is stronger. Anyway... toying with these things. can waste half a day for you pretty quickly.

[inquiry]

Well, must not be any theorist who like to tinker with a modfication of an old idea. To bad, I was hoping for more input on this treatment. But here is one more for you. Playing precision you could use something similar. Now the two suit responses over the interfernece will be really helpful since opener hasn't shown his stuff yet....

Imagine a typical precisoin auction with interference..

1C=(1S)-DBL-(3/4S)
?

!C = artificial and forcing,
Dbl = some kind of "cards" response or genearal takeout, however you play now.

Neither partner knows nothing about the others hand.... Now imagine an adaptation of equalty here...

1C-(1S)-X-?

Where

• double is diamonds
  
• 1NT = clubs
  
• 2♣ = heart suit
  
• 2♦=spade suit
  
• 2♥= both majors
  
• 2♠balanced
  
• 2NT is both minors
  
• 3♣/3♦ is bid suit and hearts

Theory is shape first, points latter (sort of)... the higher you go, of course, GF in effect. These don't have to be wild 55 things either. Since the low ones are by transfer (with step between), there is plenty of room for both opener and responder to show plus values or not. This is much less vulnerable to preemption.

Ben

[whereagles]

Transfer responses to take-out doubles are on the same "bag" as, say, Rubens' transfer advances of overcalls or keri over 1NT. All these are sound and superior methods that failed to become popular mostly because the usual methods, plus a bit of good judgement, are usually enough to see players through complicated situations.

[whereagles]

I just generated and analyzed 100 hands, to which I tried to apply not only the "equality" thing, but also every competitive gadget I could think of, like transfer advances, fit-bids, transfer responses in competition, mixed raises etc.

The results confirmed my initial idea: all those gadgets failed not only to appear on a regular basis, but also to provide a definite edge on most situations where they did show up. Sure, they are good to deal with the "bridge world hand of death", but that's not a hand that comes up frequently. Most of the hands are actually straightforward.

What does seem to pay out often, is to play some sort of system that allows you to bid on marginal values, like 9-11 NT openers and 5-card weak twos. That increases your frequency of opening and consequently allows you to strike the first blow more often. This is worth more points than most gadgets.

[inquiry]

100 hands and you disproved the validity of not only misho's equality bids, but also transfer advances, fit jumps, transfer responses and mixed raises (and even others "etc."). Wow, ok I am convnced... after all,l you even clearly demontrated that these not a hand that comes up frequently. So I am glad for you that have found a way that you are comfortable bidding.

But for me, they are a necessity, and they come up EXTREMELY frequency. To give a just some quick examples ....

[FONT=Courier]

Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 -     1♥    Dbl   2♥
 2♠    Pass  3♦    Pass
 3NT   Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Here south, with a three card fit and a surpize five cards in the unbid major aftrr the takeout double, decide to make a "raise" to mix it up for the opponents. I can agree with the raise, BUT ONLY IF the direct raise is weak, and 2♦ would be used to show a "normal raise". This north, however was of the opinion that transfer advances come up to infrequently and that most of the hands are actually straightforward.

3NTx making five was -1150 and a loss of 12.22 imps. Too bad south want aware north was wearing his clown suit. Playing transfer advances south would have been warned. You get your "disruptive" 2♥ bid without risking your partner not being n the picture.

---

This hand illustrates the major premise behind such bids (transfer responses in competition). They narrow the number of hands that can held. When 1H-x-2H can be a sound raise, or a clown raise, that puts too much pressure on the bidders... When 1H-x-4H can be minimum GF values or very weak preemptive that puts too much pressure on opener in both further competitive auctions and if he just happens to have a very nice slammsih try hand opposite real values. Fit jumps, mixed raises, "etc" allow a perfect picture to be painted "EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT USED"... because it eliminates possible hands partner can hold, allowing you to infer from the opponents bidding and your hold the nature of your parnters hand. The POSSIBILITY that you COULD have used any of these gadgets on any auction and DIDN"T provides important bidding clues to your partner... imagine another auction......

 1♠    Dbl All Pass  

Here are hands where the 1♠ opener "stuck it out" in 1♠X

Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 -     1♥    Dbl   2♥
 2♠    Pass  3♦    Pass
 3NT   Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Here south, with a three card fit and a surpize five cards in the unbid major aftrr the takeout double, decide to make a "raise" to mix it up for the opponents. I can agree with the raise, BUT ONLY IF the direct raise is weak, and 2♦ would be used to show a "normal raise". This north, however was of the opinion that transfer advances come up to infrequently and that most of the hands are actually straightforward.

3NTx making five was -1150 and a loss of 12.22 imps. Too bad south want aware north was wearing his clown suit. Playing transfer advances south would have been warned. You get your "disruptive" 2♥ bid without risking your partner not being n the picture.

---

Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 -     1♥    Dbl   2♥
 2♠    Pass  3♦    Pass
 3NT   Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Here south, with a three card fit and a surpize five cards in the unbid major aftrr the takeout double, decide to make a "raise" to mix it up for the opponents. I can agree with the raise, BUT ONLY IF the direct raise is weak, and 2♦ would be used to show a "normal raise". This north, however was of the opinion that transfer advances come up to infrequently and that most of the hands are actually straightforward.

3NTx making five was -1150 and a loss of 12.22 imps. Too bad south want aware north was wearing his clown suit. Playing transfer advances south would have been warned. You get your "disruptive" 2♥ bid without risking your partner not being n the picture.

---

[whereagles]

Hey, don't get me wrong, all those methods are very sound and superior. It's just that they don't seem to turn out very often

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Oct 21 2004, 11:17 AM, said:

Hey, don't get me wrong, all those methods are very sound and superior. It's just that they don't seem to turn out very often

Well, let me handle this single complaint...

Every single time your partner open 1M and the next hand doubles, and you ahve support for your partner... this method turns up. Everytime.

Now that doesn't mean everytime, the auction will go...

1S-(x)-2H <<----- transfer to 2S, good support

In fact, sometimes it will go...

1S-(x)-2s <---- weak support for Spades, or

1S-(x)-3C <---- fit jump, values for invite 3♠ raise with clubs too, etc.

And as we saw in the last two example hands in my thread above, even

1S-(x)-PAss <---- conveys information that you were not able to make the clow raise with three card support.

Seems like it turns up after EVERY single double, as you can't just count when the transfer to the major was used, but when it was not used as well.

[cherdano]

Hi Ben,

something that irritates me in your list of replies is the lack of a natural invitational notrump bid. They are rather frequent, and when you have them, don't you think your transfers to NT (1♠ or 2♠) will usually wrong-side the contract? Will opener usually deny the transfer when he has no stopper(s)?

Arend

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Oct 21 2004, 12:21 PM, said:

Hi Ben,

something that irritates me in your list of replies is the lack of a natural invitational notrump bid. They are rather frequent, and when you have them, don't you think your transfers to NT (1♠ or 2♠) will usually wrong-side the contract? Will opener usually deny the transfer when he has no stopper(s)?

Arend

Well that shouldn't irritate you in Equality.. as misho and I use 1NT as natural and lmitied.. after a takeout double or an overcall...

So..

1M-(x)-1NT is natural and the bidding can end there. I do no a lot of transfer people use 1NT as transfer to clubs.. we do not.. This is how we show clubs...

1♥-(X)-? <<--- here a 1♠ by us shows clubs or balanced unsuit for 1NT
1♥-(1]♠)-X <<--- here Dbl shows clubs or balanced usuited for 1NT (too strong)

So I think maybe you haven't read the equality method threads... it is a meta defense to overcalls or doubles, and 1NT/3NT by either partner is always natural... and 2NT is always artificial. We never transfer to Notrump. Although we do use some bids to show balanced hand unsuited for notrump, but then if partner bids NT, you have rightsided it after all (at one level, unsuit is almost always too strong for 1NT).

Ben

[cherdano]

I understand you are playing natural 1NT, but I suppose that is limited to about 9-10 points. I was referring to

• 1♠ = balanced hand to good for 1NT (or diamonds), after (1♣)-X-(1♥)
  
• 2♠ = balanced hand, not showing spades, forcing... to at least 2NT, after (1♣)-X-(P)

as "transfers" to NT. In both cases, you they seem the only possible bids with invitational notrump hands, and both seems likely to wrong-side the contract.

Arend

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Oct 21 2004, 12:54 PM, said:

I understand you are playing natural 1NT, but I suppose that is limited to about 9-10 points. I was referring to

• 1♠ = balanced hand to good for 1NT (or diamonds), after (1♣)-X-(1♥)
  
  
• 2♠ = balanced hand, not showing spades, forcing... to at least 2NT, after (1♣)-X-(P)

as "transfers" to NT. In both cases, you they seem the only possible bids with invitational notrump hands, and both seems likely to wrong-side the contract.

Arend

Oh.. ok.. I see where you are coming from

Let's handle each case in succession. Maybe with an example or two to clarify.

Let's start wtih the simplier one first...

(1♣)-DBL-(1♥)-1♠

Anytime advancer (the 1S bidder) is balanced and in your range of 9 to 10 points or less he will bid 1NT. If he is balanced and strongish, he can pass if 1♥ is forcing and double later to show values. So the 1♠ bid is made on three types of hands. Strong game try balance, strong enough to go to 2NT. Our 2NT is artificial, game force values and balance, or anything you want to bid diamonds on. Let's spell it out, it is not a transfer to 1NT. Opener bids 1NT only if HIS hand is suited for a 1NT bid. Since we play raptor, the doubler will bid 1NT wiht club stopper and generally balanced hand, or he can jump to 2NT with a "normal 1NT" overcall. This jump, however, is best reserved for good diamond fit because the stronger doubler is (if 1♥ is forcing), the weaker partner will be given the bidding. If the 1♠ bidder is too strong for 1NT, he will not pass a natural 1NT rebid by opener. We don’t make light takeout doubles with balanced hands.

So as far as wrong siding the contract, it can’t really be done too often with the 1♠ bid on this auction, since opener bids NT himself only when right for him to do so. Since our doubles are either shape specific (short in suit doubled) or strong (we don’t have natural 1NT overcall), the 1♠ bid generally gets not a notrump bid from partner but a 2♦, 3♦, or 2♣ bid, where 2♦ is not a happy double, 3♦ is huge presumed fit, distributional, and 2♣ shows an excellent takeout double and presumed diamond fit.

The 1D, 1H, 1S, 1NT all normal makes sense to me, and that is how we play. We also have a very natural 3NT bid over this double, to play. So you have a limited 1NT bid, and a limited 3NT bid available. So when would you use the leap to 2♠ to invite to 3NT over partners takeout double? Not when holding a major, you could transfer to the major, and then bid NT. Not when holding the other minor, you could transfer and to the minor and rebid 2NT. So this shows, specifically, not only balanced, but that clubs is advancers suit. Their leading clubs will probably not be useful to them, and if they lead a non-club, you want it coming up to your partner, not through him.

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---

 

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---

 

Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     -     1♣    Dbl
 Pass  ?

With a hand like this, I don't have to jump to show values. I can transfer to spades at the two level, and then bid 2/3 NT depending upon partners tendencies to double.   

---