stayman question opinions please
#1
Posted 2004-September-27, 03:04
#2
Posted 2004-September-27, 04:01
#3
Posted 2004-September-27, 04:14
Undiscussed I would think this is natural and slam-interest. It must have 4♠ because without a 4-card major responder would not bid Stayman.
With a fit in opener's major and a shortness, make an unusual jump in your short suit, 4♦ on luke's example distribution.
#4
Posted 2004-September-27, 04:19
"i'd guess 4405 hand that has at least slam aspirations ".
Jimmy did you misread the initial question? How else would you show
Axxx xxx x KJT9x
2N is a pretty crook bid here.
#5
Posted 2004-September-27, 04:35
If I want to force, I bid 2S over 2H, partner bids 2NT, and then I bid a forcing suit.
I like this very much... but standard, 3C is forcing, with clubs and spades....
ben
#6
Posted 2004-September-27, 04:35
#7
Posted 2004-September-27, 07:18
#8
Posted 2004-September-27, 07:32
Fluffy, on Sep 27 2004, 09:18 AM, said:
Yes.. fluffy is absoluteyl correct. And this is what I play with many partners... But this might be a good time to ask a follow up question...
What does the following 2S bid mean?
1NT-2C
2H-2S
You used stayman looking for a 4-4 major fit. Partner bid 2H. Does 2S say, sorry partner, I don't have 4H, but I do have 4S.. can we play 2S? If not, please bid 2NT? That works, and at matchpoints might be a good use. I give up the ability to play exactly 2S here, and use 2S as an artificial game force. Opener rebids 2NT.. now responder bids 3C (may later show heart support), etc....
What this allows is if this is how to force with clubs, then what does the immediate 3C bid over 2H by opener mean? Well, it is no longer forcing. Invite or signoff.. up to you or your partner. I play it as non-forcing but mild invite (with no invite, I transfer to clubs originally or pass 1NT, with stronger invite, I buck up and rebid 2NT over 2H, we aren't going to five clubs anyway, so where am I inviting to?).
Ben
#9
Posted 2004-September-27, 08:29
Over strong NT's, we play Goldman. To show a good hand with a minor and a 4 card major, transfer to the minor and bid the OTHER major.
Ergo, 1N - 2♣ - 2♥ - 3♣ can be used to show a weak 5-4 or even 6-4; Qxxx, xx, x, Qxxxxx.
#10
Posted 2004-September-27, 08:54
sceptic, on Sep 27 2004, 11:04 AM, said:
Hi
You have to discuss with your pd the different meaning of all the sequences including ♣.
What is strong (GF) what is invite to game, what is signoff, what is slam-invite.
Which distribution shows responder?
1NT - 3♣
1NT -2♠ with 2NT showing ♣ honour
1NT - 2♣ - 2 any - 3 ♣
1NT - 2♦ - 2♥ - 3♣
I saw many players, who said SAYC or 2/1 give the above very different meaning. Imo: it is necessary, to discuss this with pd.
Cheers
Al
♠♥♠ BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa. ♦♣♦
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.
Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
#11
Posted 2004-September-27, 09:44
sceptic, on Sep 27 2004, 10:04 AM, said:
Standard SAYC 3♣ is natural showing slam interest.
In old fashioned Acol it is weak and sign off.
In your system, and also 2/1, the answer is dependent on the hands you put through the 2♠ transfer to clubs. You probably do not need another bid showing slam interest in clubs, so you can play this as sign off or invitational.
Personally I play it as sign off, implying 4-card spades but any method is playable as long as you agree.
#12
Posted 2004-September-27, 17:12
#13
Posted 2004-September-28, 02:28
In the advanced/experet groups my answer would have been that 3♣ is a relay ("minor suit asking"), saying nothing about clubs.
In SAYC, an invitational hand with clubs bid 3♣ over 1NT. 3♣ via Stayman is natural and forcing. You can't bid an invitational (or weak) two-suiter in that system. (This is one of the few exceptions confirming the rule that Standard American is better than Biedermeijer ).