[jillybean]

Hi, (still learning SAYC)

I would appreciate some advice on bidding after strong 2C openings.
The bid I have used, almost exclusively as responder is 2D “waiting”.

Should 2D be used on all hands <8 regardless of shape?
Is Puppet Stayman only be used in GF situations?
Is a 2C opening automatically GF?

Any other information most welcome!
thanks,
Jillybean

[Free]

If you want to keep it simple, use 2♦ as waiting bid, 2M as weak with 5+ card, 3m as weak with 6+ card. This way, opener can describe his hand most of the time. I've seen many auctions go high extremely fast after a 3m or 2♠ positive response without any room left for a decent slam approach...

[EricK]

In SAYC 2♣ is GF except on balanced hands when it only forcing to 2NT.

Positive suit responses should show a good suit (2 of the top 3 honours). 2NT response should show scattered values and a desire to declare NT, so tenaces etc. You don't necessarily need 8 points to make a positive response. Qx KQTxxx xxx xx is a positive response of 2♥. In general, you should be more willing to give a positive in a major than in a minor because of the extra room taken up.

All other hands should go through 2♦ which gives opener maximum room to clarify his hand type.

You are GF exceot in the single sequence 2♣ 2♦ 2NT.

You should play exactly the same methods over 2♣ 2♦ 2NT as you do over a 2NT opening but all your ranges will be adjusted by a couple of points.

Eric

[skorchev]

Hi,

see this scheme:
2♣-?

-2♦ - 0-7 hcp, no Aces, no two Kings
-2♥ - 1 red Ace (♥ or ♦)
-2♠ - 1 black Ace (♠ or ♣)
-2NT - 8+ hcp or 2 Kings at least; no Aces
-3♣ - one black Ace and one King(any)
-3♦ - one red Ace and one King(any)
-3♥ - one red Ace and two Kings(any)
-3♠ - one black Ace and two Kings(any)
-3NT - two Aces

another scheme:
2♣-?

-2♦ - 0-1 controls*
-2♥ - 2 controls
-2♠ - 3 controls
-2NT - 4+ controls
-3♣/3♦/3♥/3♠ - natural, 5+ cards, 2-3 controls

*control - Ace=2 controls, King=1 control; for example:♠xx♥Axxx♦Jxxx♣Kxx - this hand has 3 controls - Ace(2 controls)+King(1 control)=3 controls

About the scheme after 2♣-2any-2NT it should be the same like after opening 2NT imho.


Stefan

[jillybean]

skorchev, on Sep 12 2004, 02:46 PM, said:

-2♦ - 0-7 hcp, no Aces, no two Kings
-2♥ - 1 red Ace (♥ or ♦)
-2♠ - 1 black Ace (♠ or ♣)
-2NT - 8+ hcp or 2 Kings at least; no Aces
-3♣ - one black Ace and one King(any)
-3♦ - one red Ace and one King(any)
-3♥ - one red Ace and two Kings(any)
-3♠ - one black Ace and two Kings(any)
-3NT - two Aces

Good golly, I have trouble remembering the basics!

[epeeist]

Since your message said SAYC, here's what the "ACBL Standard Yellow Card System Booklet" (April 2003 revision) says on page 5 (paraphrased, I'm not quoting directly):

2 ♥/♠ or 3♣/♦ = at least a 5-card suit and 8 points (so could be longer/stronger)

2NT = balanced 8 HCP or better.

2♦ conventional (e.g. 0-7 points), or could be "waiting" with a hand unsuitable for other bid (say, you have 8 or more points but unbalanced hand no 5-card suit like 4441)

There's other stuff about responses after 2NT rebid by 2♣ bidder, etc.

There are many other systems for responding to it, I'm not saying they're not good, they may be better, but if you want to know what sayc says, that's it

By the way, if you want the booklet, it's in PDF format at the ACBL website:

http://www.acbl.org/...lsSupplies.html

at the hyperlink, "full instructions for using this popular convention card." [referring to SAYC convention card]. It prints out a short 8-page booklet.

[helene_t]

That's a funny coincidence. My father, too, plays 2♥=red ace, 2♠=black ace. I thought he invented it himself, but many conventions have been invented several times.

I wonder if 2NT=8+ HCPs is seriously recomended. There may be a case for making opener captian of the bidding if responder can describe his hand immediately. Then, opener should use (Pubbet) Stayman and transfers over his partners 2NT. 2NT should be limited, then, say 8-9 HCPs. With 8-9 HCPs ballanced I would relay with 2♦, and when opener rebids 2NT first try to find a fit and then bid 4NT, which will give my partner a headache since he doesn't know when 4NT is quantitative and when it's keycards asking. So I think that the immediate 2NT response has merrits.

Two years ago there was a review of different response schemes in the Dutch BF magazine "Bridge". They said that responser should never bid 2NT since with 8 HCPs it may be just slam or just not slam, and you need all bidding space to find out. Besides, 2NT may wrongside a 3NT contract.

If you agree with that, you can play transfer responses from 2NT until 3♥.

Most teachers recommend that responder "allways" bids 2♦ over opener's 2♣. Opener may have a strong hand with hearts, and the only way of letting him tell you that is to relay with 2♦. So whatever respond scheme you choose, you should always bid 2♦ unless you have something to tell that is more important than partners hearts. In other words, a response of 2♠ shows a suit of KJTxx as an absolute minimum, not merely a fivecard and 8+ HCPs.

[luke warm]

i've found control count responses to work out ok.. someone else already gave them, but i'll do it again... this isn't too hard on the memory, jilly (i know cause i can usually rememer it )

2d=0 or 1
2h=2 (ace or 2 kings)
2s=3 (ace/king or 3 kings
2nt=4 (2 aces or 4 kings)

some play 2s as 3 kings specifically, when 2nt would be an ace/king and 3c would be 4 controls.. the reason some like this is because the 2c bidder can often use this info

[vang]

jillybean2, on Sep 12 2004, 03:12 PM, said:

Hi, (still learning SAYC)

I would appreciate some advice on bidding after strong 2C openings.
[...]
Any other information most welcome!

read this article:
http://www.prairiene...bridge/b_2c.htm

("Your 2C Bidding Structure" by Karen Walker)

[skorchev]

jillybean2, on Sep 12 2004, 11:13 PM, said:

skorchev, on Sep 12 2004, 02:46 PM, said:

-2♦ - 0-7 hcp, no Aces, no two Kings
-2♥ - 1 red Ace (♥ or ♦)
-2♠ - 1 black Ace (♠ or ♣)
-2NT - 8+ hcp or 2 Kings at least; no Aces
-3♣ - one black Ace and one King(any)
-3♦ - one red Ace and one King(any)
-3♥ - one red Ace and two Kings(any)
-3♠ - one black Ace and two Kings(any)
-3NT - two Aces

Good golly, I have trouble remembering the basics!

It's easy to remember that:

every suit-bid (except 2♦) promise Ace like the color of the suit - when responder bid blacksuit - ♠ or ♣ then he has black Ace (♠A or ♣A), when responder bid red suit - ♥ or ♦ then he has red Ace - ♥A or ♦A. 2M promise only one Ace w/o Kings, 3m promise one Ace and one King, and 3M promise 1 Ace and 2 Kings, it's graduated, and the bids which you should remember are 2♦, 2NT and 3NT. If this one looks difficult for you, there is possibility to change the 3rd-level bids with 3♣ which means two Ace, but then you can't show combinations of Aces and Kings.


Stefan