[Chamaco]

Hi all, I would like to know which scheme do you think fits best over 2NT opener assuming you are using Puppet Stayman, namely for:

- slammish single suiter in minor
- slammish minors 2-suiters
- non slammish one suiter minor
- non slamming 2-suiters minors
- slammish 2 suiters majors
- non slammish 2-suiters majors
- 5 spades/4 hearts hands (e.g. Smolen-type; how do you bid them if using 3S as Minor Suit Stayman; or, if u suggest using 3S Smole, how do you deal with MSS-type hands)
- if the scheme you are suggesting means giving up 4C Gerber in place of another meaning, how do you ask for aces.

If the answer is too long, any pointer will be appreciated

Thanks !

[kgr]

I use Niemeyer instead of puppet. This is slightly different.
I didn't really discuss these with my partner (except the 2NT-3NT that we always forget ), but could try to handle it with:

=> Minors:
With slammish hands I porbably bid:
transfer with 3S and bid minor on 4 level. (forcing), this asks for control bids.
OR
3C niemeyer followed by 4C minor suit stayman if you want to know the distribution.
With non-slammish hands similar if I my hand cries for 5m, but probably go to 3NT (via 3C)
=> with majors:
--- Non slamish:
------- bid 3NT with 5S/4H
------- transfer to H (3D) and bid 3S with 4S/5H
------- transfer to S (3H) and bid 4H with 5S/5H
--- slamish:
------- No problem with 4S/5H because the 3S bid is still forcing
------- Problem with other hands, 3C niemeyer followed by 4C minor suit stayman could be a possibility to get the distribution and put the contract afterwards.

- 5 spades/4 hearts hands (e.g. Smolen-type; how do you bid them if using 3S as Minor Suit Stayman)
=> 2NT-3NT: 5 spades and 4 Hearts. (We go through 3C to end in 3NT). This is an agreement we easily forget!!!
- if the scheme you are suggesting means giving up 4C Gerber in place of another meaning, how do you ask for aces.
=> Only 2NT-4C is Gerber. Otherwise ask aces with 4NT

[Free]

Didn't we have the EXACT discussion somewhere else?? I think it was beginners lounge

[helene_t]

Here is my description of the Niemeijer convention. (Sorry, you have to scroll a little. Please keep me informed about any mistakes. I'm aware that the 4♠-followup of 3NT is misplaced but that's kind of obvious.)
Many pairs transfer to the majors in reverse order with slamish hands and non-reverse with non-slamish hands. I'm not sure how established that is.
Maybe
2NT-3♣
3NT-4♠
asks for aces, but otherwise you can't ask for aces unless a fit has been established. If responder has shown two suits, 6-ace-blackwood applies.

[Chamaco]

Free, on Jul 26 2004, 12:45 PM, said:

Didn't we have the EXACT discussion somewhere else?? I think it was beginners lounge

I found only one topic "Puppet stayman" started by Easy, but it discussed more the "phylosophy" of using Puppet (pros and cons) rather thean the specific details of how to bid 1/2 suiters of various strength.

Of course I may have missed other threads, but I tried to look for them

[Cascade]

This is what I use:

"- slammish single suiter in minor"

2NT 3♠ Puppet to 3NT
3NT Pass to play
4♣/♦ = single-suited minor forcing

We would use puppet to investigate a 5-3 major fit first with a three-card major.

"- slammish minors 2-suiters"

2NT 4NT 2245

2NT 3♠ Puppet to 3NT
3NT 4♥/♠ 55 in the minors with stiff or void in suit bid (with 5431 check for a five-card major first)
4NT 2254

We would use puppet to investigate a 5-3 major fit first with a three-card major.

"- non slammish one suiter minor"

eventually we will use

2NT 3NT transfer to a minor
4♣ forced and responder passes or corrects

We don't use this current as 2NT 3NT sounds too natural. After 2NT 3♠ Puppet has come up a few more times without us forgetting we will add this method.

I believe there was an auction in the World Championships (or maybe elsewhere) involving Hamman where they bid 2NT 3NT and they both forgot that this was a transfer to 4♣.

"- non slamming 2-suiters minors"

Just raise to 3NT usually.

There is room for us to show 5-5 with no slam interest and get to 5minor.

2NT 3♠
3NT 5♣ could be 5/5 minors no slam interest - we don't use this though.

"- slammish 2 suiters majors"

5-5 or better

2NT 3♥ Jacoby
3♠ 4♥ = 5/5 - not slammish

2NT 3♥ Jacoby
3♠ 5♥ = 5/5 - slammish - we need some work here.

2NT 3♦
3♥ 3♠ = 4/5
...

Opener then can raise either major or make a general cue with a maximum:

4♣/♦ = better than 4♥/♠ respectively

- non slammish 2-suiters majors

Same as slammish.

"- 5 spades/4 hearts hands (e.g. Smolen-type; how do you bid them if using 3S as Minor Suit Stayman; or, if u suggest using 3S Smole, how do you deal with MSS-type hands)"

We bid these through a version of Puppet Stayman.

2NT 3♣ Puppet
3♦ no five-card major and not 2-3 (or 2-2) in the majors. Therefore opener will have either four hearts or three spades.
3♠ - do you have four hearts - opener raises to 4♥ or can cue on the way.
3NT no four hearts - therefore must have three (or four spades)
4♥ - slammish with five spades (54xx)
4♠ - 54xx

"- if the scheme you are suggesting means giving up 4C Gerber in place of another meaning, how do you ask for aces."

We use Gerber.

Puppet - more details
==============

2NT 3♣ Puppet
3♦ not 2-3 (or 2-2) in majors
3♥ five hearts
3♠ five spades
3NT 2-3 or 2-2 in the majors

2NT 3♣
3♦ 3♥ asks for four spades but does not promise four spades - you must do this when you want to play 3NT

3♠ asks for four hearts - this does show four hearts - as noted above start with this if you are 54 in the majors.

3NT shows both majors 4-4 (4/5NT would show 4-4 and slam invitational or better)

4♣/♦ natural and forcing

4♣/♦ are also natural and forcing after opener rebids 3NT after 3♥/♠ asking for a four-card major.

2NT 3♣
3♥ 3♠ = slammish heart raise
4♣/♦ = natural and forcing

2NT 3♣
3♠ 4♣/♦ natural and forcing
4♥ slammish spade raise

2NT 3♣
3NT 4♣/♦ natural and forcing