simple question
#1
Posted 2004-July-15, 00:23
ok let say a fictional situation (but that we have known no doubt ) u are doing a KO match 32 deals and after crazy 16 deals unlucky and also bad played u're 50IMP behind . u dont want to give up of course but u and ur p after a discussion has decided to play the last 16 deals putting a LOT of pressure , i mean dont change the system doing more psyche , overcall with very weak hand etc... the question is nto to say if that way of acting is good or not , i'm pretty sure i would have a lot writing back " well dont change anything just try to do ur best and luck migth be back simply" u're rigth of course saying that but anyway it's ur decision u have taken with the team and partner to do those 16 last deals this way with psyche and so. The question is simple , do u have to say about it to ur opp at ur table ? to the whole team u're playing against ?
let say now u're playing in MP and at the middle of the tourney u are doing very bad and again u decide with partner to change radically ur way of play (again pls i know it's not the best way to do it's fictional , it's just the decision of ur team) and use more psyche etc. is it accepted to do that in MP? (considering u know u migth have some 0 but some 100 to some other and that can change radically the result at the end ) do u have to tell the director of the tourney ? the team u will meet ?
regards
syl
#2
Posted 2004-July-15, 01:14
I don't think you have to tell opponents in a teams match - they know as well as you how badly you are doing so they must expect that you may try something.
I also don't think you have to tell opponents at pairs. You don't have a duty to the rest of the field, you must simply do what you feel is most likely to bring in enough MP to win (or come in the top 3, or whatever your goal is).
Eric
#3
Posted 2004-July-15, 02:04
Do you have to tell the opponents that you are going to take conservative middle of the road actions?
The answer to this question and yours should be the same.
I have never had my opponents inform me that because they are so far ahead they are not going to psyche. Have you?
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#4
Posted 2004-July-15, 02:28
If partner makes a call that, according to your agreemtent, is likely to be a psyche, while the opps would not expect it to be a psyche, you must alert it.
If you have an extremely deviating overcall style or use psyches very frequently, you must write it on your CC. But under the given circumstances, you probably don't change your CC, so it would be nice to alert the opponents.
#5
Posted 2004-July-15, 02:49
Helene, if its LIKELY to be a psyche, then it is not a psyche. A psyche is as unexpected to your partner as it is to the opponents.
eg we used to play over a precision C that 1H showed 13 cards. This is not a psyche. Naturally the opponents are pre alerted.
#6
Posted 2004-July-15, 04:13
Just put it in your notes that when you think you're behind, your style changes heavily to very agressive bidding and put on your cc "psyching: rare unless we're losing heavily"
#7
Posted 2004-July-15, 04:21
#8
Posted 2004-July-15, 04:38
The_Hog, on Jul 15 2004, 05:49 AM, said:
I don't buy this totally.
Partner being as unexpected as the opponents is not really completely synonymous with what is written in the laws "not based on a partnership understanding".
In particular I do not care whether Mrs Guggenheim (sp??) expects my psyche as much as my partner so long as I have no partnership understanding. Partner may expect the psyche more simply because he has a wider general bridge knowledge.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#9
Posted 2004-July-15, 06:35
Free, on Jul 15 2004, 06:13 AM, said:
I think this is illegal and unethical to boot.
Let's handle the illegal aspects. You and your partner will know when you are "losing heavily", but of course your opponents whom you change every round, will not have a clue how you are doing. So your partner will be much more prepared to field a psyche than you. This in effect makes it an illegal psyche.
Now lets look at the ethics of it. For this, I will assume we are talking matchpoints to make it easy. When you are "losing heavily", a few psyches are not actually likelyt to improve your winning chances (one or two boards will not help). So what your psyches do are either help unreasonable your current opponents (by giving them a gift top when your psyche falls flat), or "unfairly harming" them, when your psyche workds but does nothing to improve your chances of winning.
It is much better ethically and legal to psyche when no one can suspect it (Early in an event, or when you think you need one more good board to WIN). This is what I think anyway.
Ben
#10
Posted 2004-July-15, 08:34
I also don't think it's a good strategy to start psyching when you're losing, I just respond to jjsb's question If he want's to play this way, I won't stop them... Just giving advise, perhaps wrong advise .
#11
Posted 2004-July-15, 11:11
Just because you are being trounced at the half, doesn't mean that going nuts is the best strategy. I've seen a lot of good teams try to play par at one table and the other table have some 'variable' results. If you are the table thats going for the 'variable' results, then you better be up front with your opponents, where psyches are concerned.
If you field the psyche in a match where you are deep in a hole, and you end up winning, you may get to state your case to the C/E committee.
#12
Posted 2004-July-15, 11:14
Another way to generate some tops is making anti-percentage plays. This is even MORE likely to generate a top than going crazy in the bidding.
For example.
Ax
xxx
KQ10xxx
xx
xxx
AKxx
Ax
KQxx
1N - 3N
Opening lead KS. When in with AS, play the AD and finesse the 10D. Most of the time this will throw tricks away. But when Jxxx is with West, you make when everyone else is down for a cold top.
#13
Posted 2004-July-15, 12:04
A private agreement to fail to adhere to your Convention Card is most definately NOT.
P.S.
Psyching is not the way to shoot effectively!
Unless the rules have changed drastically since I played Tournament bridge...
Every time your opponents psyche, call the director,
You will get penalised by losing time! But, a psyching pair will lose time every round, AND the director will be on the alert.
P.P.S.
IMO, the best shooting opportunities come in the play!
Also, try playing IMPs tactics at MP & MP tactics at IMPs. Abnormal results are almost certain,
#14
Posted 2004-July-15, 13:30
The key is to strive for abnormal results but not to play for miracles. Bidding a 40% game (in MP) or staying out of a 60% game is a resonable shot. Bidding a 10% game or staying out of a 90% game will just increase the size of your loss.
#15
Posted 2004-July-15, 15:03
Cave_Draco, on Jul 15 2004, 03:04 PM, said:
Every time your opponents psyche, call the director,
You will get penalised by losing time! But, a psyching pair will lose time every round, AND the director will be on the alert.
I think this is out and out gamesmanship.
Calling the director for a psyche is not reasonable unless you think that there has also been an infraction.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#16
Posted 2004-July-15, 17:00
#17
Posted 2004-July-17, 11:19
Cascade, on Jul 15 2004, 09:03 PM, said:
Cave_Draco, on Jul 15 2004, 03:04 PM, said:
Every time your opponents psyche, call the director,
You will get penalised by losing time! But, a psyching pair will lose time every round, AND the director will be on the alert.
I think this is out and out gamesmanship.
Calling the director for a psyche is not reasonable unless you think that there has also been an infraction.
I don't see how it can be considered gamesmanship,
http://www.worldbrid...ems/psyches.asp
Given that one often only plays a couple of boards against any particular opponents, how can one judge if the WBF guidlines are being broken?
I would maintain that no pair can so judge, unless opps psyche twice,
If the final sentence was amended to "Calling the director for a psyche is not reasonable unless you think that there could have been an infraction."
I would agree.
However, failing to call the director is, IMO, to make the unilateral decision that no infraction has taken place! I say that making that decision is not "proper", it is up to the director to decide.
How can the director decide if s/he is denied information?
#18
Posted 2004-July-17, 13:48
it is gamesmanship, if it's done for that reason, and your post left the impression that's why you'd be doing it
#19
Posted 2004-July-17, 16:54
Cave_Draco, on Jul 17 2004, 02:19 PM, said:
Cascade, on Jul 15 2004, 09:03 PM, said:
Calling the director for a psyche is not reasonable unless you think that there has also been an infraction.
If the final sentence was amended to "Calling the director for a psyche is not reasonable unless you think that there could have been an infraction."
I would agree.
There "could have been" lots of infractions:
The opponents might have used some illegal method of communication that we do not know about (very similar to what you are suggesting about psyches);
They may have peeked at our cards and dropped an off-side King or Queen
etc
We don't call the director unless we have some evidence.
I believe that summoning the director because there has been a psyche is not the proper use of a director call. It is motivated by your own personal crusade against psyches and/or a desire to intimidate the opponents into not exercising their lawful right to psyche.
It is akin to calling the police everytime the next door neighbours have visitors because they might be selling drugs.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#20
Posted 2004-July-18, 08:35
If you have VERY GOOD reason to believe that the opps in question psych regularly and in a recurring theme or pattern, the pysch should be recorded to allow such a pattern to be established. Such that in the future, damage through a possibly illicit understanding by the opps in question may be prevented.
Alan (aka The Saint)
P.S. If someone psyches against me and makes it stick then good luck to you, but I have the memory of an elephant.... And the bloodlust of a vampire! Surely that is the spirit we want this game to be played in?