[Stephen Tu]

bonus questions:
- what's a jump to 5m?
- does your answer change if 1nt was not forcing, limited to bad 10?

[jdonn]

Cuebid for hearts.

Jump to 5m is natural.

I don't see a reason why either of those things would change if 1NT is a bit weaker, though they might be less common.

[peachy]

4m is cue for hearts. If responder had spade support, he would have already supported spades instead of bidding 1NT. I would never bid 5m but if I did, it would be natural with xx-xx or worse in majors. Sudden jump to 5-level is Exclusion if we have that on the card, but given the bidding so far, it is impossible for responder to hold a hand that could possibly want to use it.

[ONEferBRID]

Stephen Tu, on Jan 18 2010, 02:15 AM, said:

bonus questions:
- what's a jump to 5m?
- does your answer change if 1nt was not forcing, limited to bad 10?

Since I play 2/1 GF, 1NT! would be forcing, so Responder could have a 3 card limit raise for Sp which would be shown next by a jump to 3S if Opener made a minimum rebid of 2m or 2H.
That said:
1S - 1NT!
3H - ??
      4S = now is the limit w/3 and
      3S = min with as few as 2 cards ♠
      4H = min w/3 or 4 cards♥
     4m = advance cue for ♥, 4+ cards♥
     3NT = interest in neither

[ I don't know about a 5m rebid by Responder; would have to be something like
1 2 8 2 unable to make a 2/1 or 3m initially because of system constraints, like Bergen , etc ] . ]

[gwnn]

kenrexford would bid 4♣ flag for hearts 4♦ flag for spades no?

[Stephen Tu]

A little surprised by the strong preference for "cue for hearts" so far. How standard is this without discussion, is it only this forum?

Out of the printed references I could find so far:
Washington Standard, Steve Robinson:
4m = natural 7+m, 1- spades
5m = undefined not allowed

Pavlicek expert standard system on his web site, Richard Pavlicek:
4m = natural 6+m
5m = strong heart raise (he considers this unusual treatment needing discussion, but considers 4m = natural = std).

New partnership, I was actually more afraid direct 5m might have been considered some sort of heart support (ala Pavlicek), I was 1147 weak, tried 4c (4d partner) ... 5c. Thought that would be unambiguous since I would never torture partner with 2 cue bids in a potentially ambiguous auction, I would just jump in hearts if I wanted to slam try hearts, certainly the 2nd time if not the first instead of trying to show a 2nd club control. Unfortunately partner wasn't on board and I finally bought it for 6c-x minus one.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Cue for hearts.

The question is, what do you do with an weak / inv. one suiter in minor
oppossite a major suit opening.
If a jump shift response showes the weak hand, and a 2/1 is 100% game
forcing, than you could make a good case for 4m being natural.

And for whats it worth - 5m would never be natural for me, no way, p
has at best a inv. one suiter, i.e. he was not strong enough to force to
game and now should hold a suit, which playes for 1 looser oppossite a
void? If you need a meaning for the bid, make it voidwood.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Echognome]

Compare:

1. x Qxxx xxxx AKxx
2. x xx xxxx AQJTxxx

Auction goes 1♠ - 1NT; 3♥ - ?

In one case you want to cue bid for hearts (possibly twice).

In the other case you want to get to clubs.

I think it makes sense that if you want to get to clubs, just bid it now (5♣) and if you want to explore slam in hearts, then have a cheap available cue-bid is more useful. How useful is it to have a non-forcing 4♣ call? If 4♣ is natural and forcing, then the only advantage I see to that is having some type of 3-6 or 3-7 heart/club hand or 2-6 or 2-7 spade/club hand, where you are trying to find the right strain.

[awm]

My normal assumption is that bids are natural unless it's quite clear that they should be otherwise.

There are many hands with 6-7 in a minor which are virtually impossible to bid in this auction where 4m is a heart cuebid. While jumping to 5m could work out when you have four of the top five honors in your suit (like Echognome's example), this doesn't always happen in real life.

Clearly the 4m bid is forcing since 3♥ establishes a game force.

If the 3♥ jump guaranteed 5-5 or more, playing 4m as a cue is playable. But I think 3♥ is still the standard bid on a 54(31) hand, where failing to bid a 6-card minor in response could easily miss a cold 6m to play in a seven-card major suit fit.

[aguahombre]

X XX XXXX AQJTXX was already eliminated in our style, so the 4m cue for hearts becomes easier, and the 5m jump would show longer clubs.

1M-3C =good clubs, nothing else to speak of (descriptive rather than just plain weak)
1M-1NT planning to show good clubs at the 3-level =10-12. This hand could also bid 4C/3H js, then bid clubs again later (not second que) if partner allows for it and doesn't launch directly into blackwood.