Would you care if vugraph was not live?
#1
Posted 2009-June-22, 09:50
Of course feel free to discuss whether or not you agree with this, but for now I am mostly curious to find out if people would care if vugraph included a delay.
I will state my opinions in a couple of days.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#2
Posted 2009-June-22, 09:57
If I am strongly rooting for one of the teams and watch because I am excited to see if they will win, a 30 minute delay would take some of the excitement away.
#3
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:02
#4
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:11
Robert
#5
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:17
I would also be quite sure that people who think they will care will over time not care much, if at all.
#6
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:21
2. How will it work in practice? Will the commentators be typing "live" into a set of bids and plays that Vugraph has logged about 30 minutes earlier? I have often seen commentators point out to vugraph operators about an input error. If (a wrong) Vugraph entry was done 30 min. earlier, there is no opportunity to correct!
#7
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:28
I'm guessing that a delay would mean that the vugraph operator is still at the table, tapping away, but all the keystrokes are delayed by a set time. That is, we get the same delays in the operator's input that we get today, but start 30 minutes later.
One concern is that vugraph operator errors may not be picked up. Currently the commentators, and Roland, will frequently help an operator correct a mistake by (1) noticing it early, (2) suggesting what is wrong and (3) suggesting a correction.
Missing this early warning mechanism could lead the operator to just enter the board result, missing the play and/or bidding, in order to catch up with the following board.
I would note that events that provide 'live scoring', such as the current European Open Championships, would need to delay this too. Vugraph is not creating any more of a problem in this area.
Paul
#8
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:34
We would lose the commentator/kibitzer interaction, at times some real gems are passed from kibitzers to commentators.
(still learning)
#9
Posted 2009-June-22, 10:39
I have a (slight) preference to see events in "real time"; However, I think that the security requirements of the tournament sponsors far outweigh this consideration.
From my perspective, the only real "cost" is that the results of a big match will "leak". This would (obviously) detract from the suspense of the tail end of a big/close match.
With this said and done, I don't watch VuGraph in order to see the results in real time. To me, the value of the VuGraph is the opportunity to watch the bidding and play and listen to the commentary. These elements are "timeless".
#10
Posted 2009-June-22, 11:22
I think what would be great is if the play could be captured electronically with, for example, bar code scanners. I don't think it would be very annoying for the players either, as they might appreciate having the record for training and their coaches etc. In theory, one can imagine a nearly automated system, where north just pushed a "next deal" button and the players took it from there. Then one vugraph operator might be able to monitor multiple tables as a vugraph director and we could see more coverage. But that is neither here nor there. Just a wish for the future.
Given the choice of no vugraph or delayed vugraph, I'm sure most people would have an easy decision.
#11
Posted 2009-June-22, 11:28
If I had to guess at the best solution, I'd say that it would be for the kibitzer-comentator relationship to be lost (allowing a live-viewgraph theater at events, and a relationship between the commentator and viewgraph operator), but that would not be as effective in tightening up the security problems, as commentators would then have knowledge of results (and even if you believe 100% in thier honesty, you still have the appearance of conflicts of interest, like when Danny Sprung was commenting on his wife's match).
#12
Posted 2009-June-22, 11:54
As long as the players don't start twittering immediately after the event I'm good.
No reason why you couldn't edit out the 10 minute tanks and smoke breaks too.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#13
Posted 2009-June-22, 12:02
1) If the delay is long enough, all those pauses where nothing happens could be removed. Allowing for a better time management.
2) Operators and commentators could correct mistakes.
3) If a match is during office hours, I could not view it anyway.
4) If the vugraph is delayed, it would not take much to allow anyone to watch the vugraph at the time he wants and with the speed he likes.
#14
Posted 2009-June-22, 12:41
I have almost never looked through the vugraph archives. A 30-minute time delay is not much different than reading the archived files whenever you want, except that with the 30 minute time delay the pace is forced upon you where as you could easily skip a dull deal when looking through the archive.
NESN (the station that carries Red Sox games) replays Red Sox games (condensed to 2 hours) within 24 hours of the original broadcast. I do watch some Red Sox games live, but never watch the rebroadcasts. NESN also rebroadcasts "classic" games. These I might watch a bit of if I recognize the game and know that something good is going to happen soon.
Watching baseball is not the same as watching bridge (though sometimes they both seem to crawl along at the same pace). I mention this as supporting evidence that watching live does make a difference in my baseball viewing habits. I think it would be the same for bridge.
In short: I think I am less likely to watch if the shows are delayed 30 minutes and my viewing habits in other areas support this notion.
On a side note, I have little sympathy for organizers who are worried about security but who are unwilling to keep players in the playing area for an entire segment.
#16
Posted 2009-June-22, 15:47
On the other hand, I think a delay will result in a more accurate vugraph movie in that the plays and commentary will reflect actual play better. From my personal experience as a vugraph operator, I know that it is sometimes difficult to keep up with the tempo used by the players and many hands are "claimed" much earlier by the operator than the actual play was.
#17
Posted 2009-June-22, 15:55
Of course, there will sometimes be (sadly not often enough) real time scoring that might provide a spoiler but my gut says the proportion of VG watchers who'd
- know of the existence of realtime scores
- care enough to go check the result
is so small it's insignificant.
When I was watching the Euros last night, I didnt even know what time it was in Sanremo, let alone care that the match was live. That it could have started 30mins prior in no way detracted from the spectacle.
I organise a lot of VuGraph here, and aside from the dinosaur who runs a lot of tournaments here, the only grief I get is the occasional question about security.
nickf
sydney
#18
Posted 2009-June-22, 15:55
I'm sure there will be some technical items to work out in the delay, but that those are relatively minor or Fred wouldn't be asking us.
#19
Posted 2009-June-22, 16:22
#20
Posted 2009-June-22, 16:23
When you know some of the players it is fun to be able to watch the vugraph live and then contact the players very shortly after the game time.
Live vugraph is also very useful onsite at events. Although I suppose there is a security issue here. But if the organizers are having an onsite vugraph then they must be comfortable with the security.
Is security a real or only a perceived problem? I have never heard of anyone walking into the vugraph room or contacting someone outside to get information about a hand to be played. Nor have I ever heard of anyone being suspicious that this is happening. Most people are reasonable and don't want to play that way. So security should be easily overcome with good rules - no cellphones etc on site, no players wandering out of the playing room/area - and harsh penalties if anyone is caught.
My understanding at the PABF is that there is a 2 VP penalty for being caught in possession of a cellphone whether or not it is in use.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon