[fred]

Please post comments regarding BBO's web-based client here!

You should access this version of BBO through the yellow link "click here to play or watch bridge" on our home page:

www.bridgebase.com

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[kfay]

I know this must be on your radar, Fred, so sorry to beat a dead horse but I have been dying for the web-based client to get Partnership Bidding and Teaching Tables activated.

I have hit the maximum level of anxiety for these features to be added... not that that's a huge level since it's just bridge.

[fred]

kfay, on Jan 2 2009, 10:18 PM, said:

I know this must be on your radar, Fred, so sorry to beat a dead horse but I have been dying for the web-based client to get Partnership Bidding and Teaching Tables activated.

I have hit the maximum level of anxiety for these features to be added... not that that's a huge level since it's just bridge.

With the latest version you can be a player or a kibitzer (but not a host) at a teaching table.

Probably the next version will contain full support for host teaching tables as well as for Partnership Bidding.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[HeavyDluxe]

Fred,

Something interesting for the file... I typed part of an auction into a private message to a friend. "Hey what do you think this means? 1!H - 2!D etc etc etc"

After discussing the bid in questions, I cut and pasted the auction into the chat line to complete it. When my friend rec'd the completed auction, all the symbols from the cut-n-pasted part was garbled.

He's using the Windows client, so that may be part of it. Anyway, just wanted to let you know.



EDIT - One other enhancement request... In the Win client, you could see whether the table you were trying to join was "Permission Required".

I keep trying to stalk...er, I mean, shadow some players I like and wind up unintentionally nagging the table owner with a "Can Dluxe kibitz?" request. If I was aware the tables were privatized, I would just wander elsewhere.

[barmar]

When you look at table listings, there's a lock on the seat name or in the Kibitzers count to indicate that permission is required to sit or kibitz, respectively.

[HeavyDluxe]

barmar, on Jan 2 2009, 11:58 PM, said:

When you look at table listings, there's a lock on the seat name or in the Kibitzers count to indicate that permission is required to sit or kibitz, respectively.

Thanks, Barmar... I know that is true.

What I meant was when you have a particular player's profile square up on your screen and click the JOIN TABLE button.

In the old Windows client, the analogous button would tell you if that table was 'permission only'. I have the people I like to kibitz marked as friends, so I'm usually trying to jump to where they are rather than browsing through table listings.

[heyrocky]

Fred,

I went to the registration page for one of jillybean's short tourneys (which she handles very nicely, by the way). She had set a limit of 40 people, and the limit had been reached. However, she raised the limit three times (to 60, then 80, then 100), but the BBOFLASH client did not register the raise. So BBOFLASH did not allow me (or, presumably, anyone else using BBOFLASH; I subbed in later, so I believe it wasn't just me...) to register for the tourney at any of those iterations.

While I'm posting, may I ask if there's any way to display the entire hand in the main window once the hand is completed? I know it's displayed in the small window on the right side of the browser, but it seems more aesthetically pleasing to display the entire hand at the end, as is the case in BBOWin.

Rich (heyrocky on BBO)

[fred]

heyrocky, on Jan 3 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

I went to the registration page for one of jillybean's short tourneys (which she handles very nicely, by the way). She had set a limit of 40 people, and the limit had been reached. However, she raised the limit three times (to 60, then 80, then 100), but the BBOFLASH client did not register the raise. So BBOFLASH did not allow me (or, presumably, anyone else using BBOFLASH; I subbed in later, so I believe it wasn't just me...) to register for the tourney at any of those iterations.

Thanks for your feedback, Rocky.

Uday and I are currently putting together a list of issues (including this one) that our members report. Most likely there will be another new version within the next couple of weeks that address these issues.

Quote

While I'm posting, may I ask if there's any way to display the entire hand in the main window once the hand is completed? I know it's displayed in the small window on the right side of the browser, but it seems more aesthetically pleasing to display the entire hand at the end, as is the case in BBOWin.

Sorry, but there is no way to do this though I might be able to make it happen (at least in a tournament context) in a future version.

Probably you know already that you can resize the area on the right of the screen and make it look just like the area on the left of the screen. You might want to experiment with this, especially if you have a large monitor.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[H_KARLUK]

Using Turkish. Create a tour OK. Tournament OK.

Problem in format space. I can see (left to right 1st) "board" and (left to right 2nd)"movement" options well. There's a third column in same line and i see nothing except a thin slice posted. I only see some check box but no explanations.

I got a screenshot, but have no idea how to post it.

This post has been edited by H_KARLUK: 2009-January-03, 11:22

[fred]

HeavyDluxe, on Jan 3 2009, 06:24 AM, said:

In the old Windows client, the analogous button would tell you if that table was 'permission only'.  I have the people I like to kibitz marked as friends, so I'm usually trying to jump to where they are rather than browsing through table listings.

One of the main differences between the Windows client and the web-based client is that the Windows client "knows everything" about the state of the system (who is online, what tables are in play, the properties of all tables, players tourneeys, etc) while the web-based client does not. The web-based client is force fed some information that we have deemed to be important (like when your friends log in or out), but for most state-related information, the web-client has to ask the server.

This is a VERY good thing in terms of performance and (especially) in terms of scalability, but there are plenty of areas in which it makes life harder both for the programmers and, if the programmers do not fully anticipate and properly deal with all issues the users might face, for our users as well.

The point you raise is a good example of this. The web-based client does not *know* the permission attributes of the table it is trying to join so it has no way to warn the user that permission might be required to join (or that joining is not allowed at all for that matter).

The solution in this case is relatively easy - when a web-based client is informed that a given member is at a given table (as it is when a profile request is made) the server could also pass along some key properties of the table in question. The client would then be in a position to warn the user.

Anyways, that was a rather long-winded way of saying "sorry about the problem - I am sure we will deal with it at some point", but hopefully some of you are interested in understanding why some of these problems exist.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

H_KARLUK, on Jan 3 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Using Turkish. Create a tour OK. Tournament OK.

Problem in format space. I can see "board" and "movement" options well. There's a column after them and i see nothing except a thin slice posted.

I got a screenshot, but have no idea how to post it.

If you want to send me your screenshot by e-mail (fred@bridgebase.com). I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[H_KARLUK]

Hi all

I am very happy Fred immediately contacted with me via email. I am really sure he is a very nice gentleman and will fix th trouble i have pointed out.

Regards
Hamdi

[HeavyDluxe]

fred, on Jan 3 2009, 12:01 PM, said:

Anyways, that was a rather long-winded way of saying "sorry about the problem - I am sure we will deal with it at some point", but hopefully some of you are interested in understanding why some of these problems exist.

Thanks, Fred. It's not a problem to me, per se. Though some table hosts might be annoyed.

And the explanation makes a lot of sense... But it reminded me too much of work and my sadly dwindling vacation.

[barmar]

The new version definitely seems faster. When I'm playing a Robot Race and GIB is declaring, when the bots get to the later part of the hand where the cards get played quickly it goes much faster. Although I still wish it would just display the final result and not waste time showing the graphics at all; if I'm curious how the play went, I can always review the hand afterward.

I'm still trying to get used to the new color scheme in the bidding diagram. My first reaction was that the new color of alerted bids is too bright. On the other hand, I'll bet people whose eyesight isn't so good appreciate the larger font used for the bid explanations.

[barmar]

I'm kibitzing a Cayne match right now, and it's showing West at the bottom instead of South, and the bidding diagram has North at the left.. Is this because I just played a tourney where I was West? I even logged out and back in, and it's still stuck like this. It's correct in the diagram of the other table, but if I join that table the main hand diagram shows West at the bottom again.

[barmar]

It does look like it gets stuck on the direction I last played. After posting the above note I played in a RR, and then when I went back to the Cayne game it showed South at the bottom.

[Mr. Dodgy]

I just gave this a quick try with a tourney I had created using BBOWIN.

When I edited the tourney using BBOflash, it removed the 'include list' option I had set. It seems that BBOflash handles this differently, presumably a consequence of flash's inability to access files local to my PC. This is a bit unfortunate. The flash interface for creating include/exclude lists is a little cumbersome. My includelist currently contains nearly 4000 IDs, having to enter them one-by one would, well, suck.

I do wonder if exclude lists work any differently (better?) with BBOflash vs. BBOwin.

Also the description text got out of whack. Instead of appearing as:

Quote

Happy New Year!

As there is no BIL Trans-Tasman tournament scheduled today, herewith please find the "Dodgy" version for your pleasure.

PM me, the one and only illustrious, kind, brilliant and handsome 'MrDodgy' if you would like to play but cannot register.

...it looked like:

Quote

Happy New Year!




As there is no BIL Trans-Tasman tournament scheduled today, herewith please find the "Dodgy" version for your pleasure.




PM me, the one and only illustrious, kind, brilliant and handsome 'MrDodgy' if you would like to play but cannot register.

...which meant that BBOwin users could not see the latter half of the text (not sure about BBOflash users).


Regards,


Justin.

[fred]

barmar, on Jan 4 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

It does look like it gets stuck on the direction I last played. After posting the above note I played in a RR, and then when I went back to the Cayne game it showed South at the bottom.

Thanks for the bug report, Barry.

Most likely we will be putting out another new version within the next couple of days in which this (and a few other bugs) are fixed.

I will announce the new version in this thread, but you don't need to pay attention. In theory we now have things set up so that new versions can be introduced without anyone noticing or having to do anything...

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

Mr. Dodgy, on Jan 4 2009, 03:57 AM, said:

When I edited the tourney using BBOflash, it removed the 'include list' option I had set. It seems that BBOflash handles this differently, presumably a consequence of flash's inability to access files local to my PC. This is a bit unfortunate. The flash interface for creating include/exclude lists is a little cumbersome. My includelist currently contains nearly 4000 IDs, having to enter them one-by one would, well, suck.

Sorry about this inconvenience. We will provide some kind of solution to this problem. I can't promise when it will happen, but hopefully it won't take too long.

Quote

I do wonder if exclude lists work any differently (better?) with BBOflash vs. BBOwin.

I am pretty sure they work the same way, but one thing you (and all TDs) should know is that we no longer do "alias checking" for the names on either the exclude list or when "exclude enemies" is selected.

Sorry about that, but checking aliases on all the names on these lists turned out to have serious performance implications on BBO as a whole.

Note that there is a new option for TDs in both clients "exclude new members". If you check this option it will prevent those excluded from your tourneys (either by exclude list or because they are your enemies) to get in by simply creating a new user ID. I am not going to explain exactly how we define "new members" here or now, but I will say that it is not trivial to become a non-new member.

Quote

Also the description text got out of whack. Instead of appearing as:

(snip)

...which meant that BBOwin users could not see the latter half of the text (not sure about BBOflash users).

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It will be fixed soon...

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mink]

After I read this I tried it out. The handling is much better than in the old interface. Here is what I observed in detail:

1. I forgot to check "Barometer". As most tourney hosts have barometer on, I would suggest that this should be the default.

2. When the tourney started, I was not informed about the sitouts. Ok, I found out about them myself very quickly.

3. When kibitzing at a table, I did not have the option to talk to the tourney, unless I used the td controls.

4. When accepting a td call it was removed from the list. I would prefer that it is removed from the lists of the other tds only, but remain on my list. More precisely, there should be 3 lists:

• requests not yet answered
  
• requests closed
  
• requests answered but not yet closed

The last list contains the case I am currently working on, and could contain tables where I still have to make an adjustment or the like, but there are currently more urgent problems to take care of. Only when a request is fully solved, the td should change the status to closed.

5. I see no point in sending each request to a specific director, as you described in your initial announcement of the new version. Rather, each new call should appear in the lists of all tds, and the first who clicks on the request owns it from then on.

6. The way the tourney status is shown is nearly exactly the same as in the old client, and there are still not all tables shown that play in a given round. I would prefer that in the list of tables there is an additional column with the boards number that is currently played there. I guess that this information might not only be interesting for tds, but also for normal kibs.

7. When the tourney was over, the result was not shown to me, and I found no way to retrieve it with the Flash client. Of course it is no problem to use myhands.

Karl