[luis]

With my 2004 pd we decided to play Leb over interference after 1NT, we agreed that slow=deny and everything seemed to be fine but we soon realized that most pairs were playing Capp or methods where a 2c or 2d bid show some holdings in the majors. So we decided to review the defense and come up with the following idea presented in this thread for you to comment:
(BTW: We play 12-15 NT)

Over 2c Capp (One suited hand)

Dbl = A club suit inviting to compete to 3c if opener has a fit.
2d,2h,2s = Natural and non forcing.
2N = Invitational with some values in every suit.
3c/3d/3h/3s = Forcing game with that suit
3N = to play
Pass = May have some values

After pass RHO will usually bid 2d (forced) and LHO pass or correct to his suit then:

Dbl = Penalty double
2N = Invitational with stopper
3x = Not forcing
Cuebid = Help, game value but no stopper/shortage in their suit
3ST = To play

If for some tactical reason RHO passes 2c opener is forced to reopen with a double.

Over 2d showing both majors:

Dbl = Penalty double in one or both majors
2h = Forcing with clubs
2s = Forcing with diamonds
2n = Invitational with stoppers in the majors
3c/3d = Natural non forcing
3h/3s = Asking for stopper
3N = To play

[inquiry]

Since I was invited to comment..... I will give my take.

First, on over 2♣ any suit. I think the best choice is to preserve the double for stolen bid as stayman. Just because they have a ♦ suit or a ♥ suit, you should not allow them to jerk you out of your typical stayman bid. I know that this double goes against the grain, as most use the dbl to show ♣'s, and or a hand where you might want to get them when they land in their suit... which btw, is why I don't like your 2NT bid on this auction. Your opponent stuck his neck into your auction with 2♣ and maybe, just maybe they have no fit and are going for a ton when you have an "invintational hand with values in all suits", why let them off the hook when they guessed wrong and bid over your 1NT opening?

If 2♣-DBL was stayman, I then leave the rest of my structure alone. That is, even though I play lebehnshol, it does not apply here... my response schedule is just as if they had not overcalled... except, opener may pass 2♣ and if LHO bids in front of openre, he may make a negative double which can get converted to penalty with a pass, or the 2♣ doubler can reopen with a takeout double which opener can convert to penalty with a pass...

Ok, over 2♦ showing the major. Your scheme is not bad, in fact, I use to play this invisible cuebid (unusual versus unusual) kind of bid. However, sometimes you as responder have a weak hand with a major. Are you just going to give and let someone following around with a 5-4 major two suiter steal the bidding by not even introducing your suit to play at the two level. If you are willing to forgo the chance to compete in two of a major over this 2♦ bid, then your scheme is fine. But be forwarned, you will occassionally have your pocket picked by a pscyhic 2D overcall or a very ratty 2D overcall where one of the "two suits" might be as bad as Qxxx, Jxxx, or Kxxx... and that suit belongs to you. This is particularily true since you play weak notrump and the bidding would have started 1m-(Dbl)-1M or 1m-(1M)-Dbl at the other tables and you the others your way land on their feet in the appropriate major. I finally decided to just go back to the bidding my major and dealing with the possible bad split (at least I know where it is) as the better option, and use normal lebehnshol here, with 3♣ and 3♦ as forcing. To invite, in a minor I pass then bid the 3 of the minor over the expected run to two of a major... of course it is possible to reverse these bids, with immediate 3minor invite, and delay bid it as stronger, but it maybe hard to catchup on the auction in that case.

So in summary, both your systems seem to give up on the majors too quickly. Over 2♣ you can no longer safely look for 4-4 in majors, and in the second you let them talk you out of your natural and non-forcing 2♥ and 2♠. Of these, the first situation seems the worse.

Ben

[Cascade]

After 1NT (2♣) Anything artificial I play

Dbl = values at least nearly invitational. A subsequent new suit is GF.
2 Suit = NF even bids in shown suits if they can be 4-cards
2NT = weak with clubs (Lebensohl-ish) - I guess you can add in some other options
3 Suit = Invitational NF

Double is a trigger that asks partner to act if possible - most often with a takeout double but bidding a five-card suit is possible.

Subsequent doubles by the responder are also takeout.

Using subsequent takeout doubles enables us to find our 4-4 major fits.

I play the same scheme against 1NT (2♦) except that 2NT can be weak with any suit not able to be shown at the 2-level.

The main problem is auctions that go:

1NT (2♣) X (P!)
?

and opener does not have clubs - we bid fairly freely in this situation.

Wayne

[luke warm]

i've probably missed some theoretical point here, but it seems to me that treating 1nt (2♣) as if it was 1nt (p) works just fine.. all systems on, double is stayman

1nt (2♦) is a little different, but i prefer 2♥ or 2♠ here to show that suit, at least 5 cards, to play... 2nt is leb, 3♣ and 3♦ are the same as if ops had not bid

[Free]

Yes, after 1NT-2♣-? you can treat it as there was no intervention, and you get an extra bid: pass which is forcing for 1 round. This can be used to play 2♣ doubled or to show ♦. This is the exact way I play it. Only if 2♣ is artificial (like Landy) we play something else.

After 1NT-2♦-? capp we play similar like after Landy. After a natural (or DONT) 2♦ overcall, we also use pass as forcing for 1 round. Gives funny auctions sometimes, but I haven't had bad experiences with it.

[mishovnbg]

...I fully agree with Ben!
............................................................................Misho

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 18 2004, 02:26 AM, said:

Only if 2♣ is artificial (like Landy) we play something else.

After 1NT-2♦-? capp we play similar like after Landy.

Hi !

I am very interested in the scheme to adopt vs Landy.
Capp is not very popular in Italy, whereas many players use defenses that make use of:
1) 2♣ Landy for majors

and 2♦ either for
2a) a unspecified major single suited OR
2b) as transfer to ♥ (single suited) coupled with 2♥ transfer to ♠.

Also a scheme vs 2NT overcall for minors would be very interesting !!

Thanks !!!

Mauro

[Free]

The way I play against 2♣ Landy is as follows:
1NT - (2♣) - ?

pass = We have time. If opponent surprise passes, partner has to protect with a double
Dbl = penalties, want to play at least 1 2M-contract doubled
2♦ = Natural and to play
2M = stop in M and asks a stop in OM
2NT = 4-4 minor (weak)
3M = 5-card M, FG

After
1NT - (2♣) - pass - (2♥/♠)
pass - pass - ?
Lebensohl/Rubensohl applies

[Trpltrbl]

Free, on Feb 18 2004, 07:09 AM, said:

The way I play against 2♣ Landy is as follows:
1NT - (2♣) - ?

pass = We have time. If opponent surprise passes, partner has to protect with a double
Dbl = penalties, want to play at least 1 2M-contract doubled
2♦ = Natural and to play
2M = stop in M and asks a stop in OM
2NT = 4-4 minor (weak)
3M = 5-card M, FG

After
1NT - (2♣) - pass - (2♥/♠)
pass - pass - ?
Lebensohl/Rubensohl applies

That's what I play, I play different defenses against different NT overcalls.

Mike

[Free]

Ofcourse you have to play different defenses against different NT overcalls. You can't treat 2♣ natural the same as Landy... It's like using a strong-club-defense against ACOL => you'll die!

[Trpltrbl]

I'll try that sounds like fun, hehehe.

Mike

[Cascade]

Chamaco, on Feb 18 2004, 06:53 AM, said:

I am very interested in the scheme to adopt vs Landy.
Capp is not very popular in Italy, whereas many players use defenses that make use of:
1)  2♣ Landy for majors

If Landy promises only 4-card majors I play:

X = values and subsequent doubles are takeout. This is like a trigger to invite NT opener to contribute. I guess this is more useful in weak NT structures. It puts opener in the frame knowing that we have at least near to half the deck.
Double and free bid is strong and forcing.

Subsequent doubles are also takeout after a pass.

2Suit (any suit) is to play and non-forcing

2NT is Lebensohl - I guess almost always weak with clubs. I suppose we would ask for stoppers through this. We play we cue the suit that we want a stopper in.

3Suit (any suit) is natural and invitational

3NT to play showing some stoppers

Quote

and 2♦ either for
2a)  a unspecified major single suited OR
2b) as transfer to ♥ (single suited) coupled with 2♥ transfer to ♠.

Double values and similar to the above over Landy.

Quote

Also a scheme vs 2NT overcall for minors would be very interesting !!

Either:

• 3♣ majors better hearts
  
• 3♦ Majors better spades

or

• 3♣ majors limited
  
• 3♦ majors stronger

I would also play double as value showing;

3♥/♠ NF constructive

Wayne