[vang]

Scoring: MP

---

you are South, RHO opens with 1♥ and then:

1♥ - p - 1♠ - 2♣
2♠ - ?

[mcphee]

A simple raise will not help me reach 3NT which I think should have a good chance if partner has a H stop. I do not expect partner to have less than 6C and a reasonable hand. My vote goes to 3S or dble. The problem with dble is it may make an awkward problem should the next hand bid 3S to block.

[Free]

3♣ for me

[Apollo81]

Partner overcalled red/white in the death seat. This hand is way too good for 3♣. I bid 3♠ which shows a stopper since they have bid two suits.

[ArtK78]

Agree with last post.

3NT might make, but it is an all or nothing bid. You need 9 running tricks. Eight appear clear - two aces and six clubs. But the 9th? Not as clear.

I would be surprised to find that 3NT is the only winning call. It seems like 5C should make here, and 6♣ is not out of the question.

Quite frankly, I would like to bid 3♥ here as a cue bid, which would allow partner to bid 3♠ if all that is needed for 3NT is a spade stop. The more I think about this, the more I like it.

Change my vote to 3♥.

[mikeh]

3♠: it's an overbid... even if partner has a heart stopper, we only have 8 tricks so far... 6 clubs and 2 aces, since dollars to donuts they ain't leading hearts for us. I only make the call because we are red v white and I hate missing vulnerable games.

At mps or white, I bid 3♣...btw, I don't play that partner needs a good hand to bid 2♣ here: just a good suit.

[Gerben42]

A good agreement is for 2NT to show this hand type. Barring that I bid 3♣, like Mike said, just a good suit please, partner

On the 3♥ vs 3♠ question: I learned that:

* If opps bid 1 suit, we ask stoppers
* If opps bid 2 suits, we show stoppers

[cherdano]

Gerben42, on Sep 5 2007, 09:10 AM, said:

A good agreement is for 2NT to show this hand type.

You mean 2N denies a heart stopper and shows a non-positional single stopper in spades?

[asc]

2NT showing good hand (I would Double 1 round), ♣ fit and ♠ stopper- if P say 3♣ - that's for play.

[skjaeran]

mikeh, on Sep 5 2007, 05:04 PM, said:

3♠: it's an overbid... even if partner has a heart stopper, we only have 8 tricks so far... 6 clubs and 2 aces, since dollars to donuts they ain't leading hearts for us. I only make the call because we are red v white and I hate missing vulnerable games.

At mps or white, I bid 3♣...btw, I don't play that partner needs a good hand to bid 2♣ here: just a good suit.

Agree.

[gwnn]

i must confess i might have doubled first time. now 3♠ sounds super.

[neilkaz]

In spite of two suits being bid by the opps, I ask for the stop I need with 3♥ and this may get a lead that can help PD so I want him declaring the 3NT if possible.

[keylime]

I bid 3♠; pard coming in on a reasonable hand and I need to probe for a stop in hearts.

With Larry and I, we double to show a good raise in clubs. In standard I'm not doubling here; I rather show my hand.

[pclayton]

Apollo81, on Sep 5 2007, 05:29 AM, said:

Partner overcalled red/white in the death seat.  This hand is way too good for 3♣.  I bid 3♠ which shows a stopper since they have bid two suits.

The 'death seat' has all but lost its significance in modern bidding. 20 years ago, an overcall here meant that you had a real hand. Now, because of support doubles and pre-balance mania, overcalls in the sandwich seat are made on much lighter hands.

I'll content myself with 3♣. I'm not going to hang pard for stepping in with x, Kxxx, xx, AKJxxx.

[mike777]

I would think 2nt here is some sort of weakish relay to 3clubs,,,,never natural.

If so then it seems a direct 3clubs shows this hand type? Real clubs, invite.

[mikeh]

mike777, on Sep 5 2007, 12:42 PM, said:

I would think 2nt here is some sort of weakish relay to 3clubs,,,,never natural.

If so then it seems a direct 3clubs shows this hand type? Real clubs, invite.

why wouldn't it be natural? I know that 2N natural is becoming an extinct animal, but it is still useful in some auctions, such as this one.

And if, by express agreement, you use transfers here, the usual approach is that the direct raise is the weakest bid, not the stronger.... it makes more sense to use the transfer for stronger hands than for weaker. We don't want to give LHO two chances to bid... which a transfer does... we can't avoid it when we use the transfer, but he is less likely to be able to use this room when we are strong than when we are weak. We also leave him a cue-bid when we transfer, and, again, he will be less likely to want to use the cue when we are strong than when we are weak. And by using the transfer as the stronger bid, we can transfer and bid again with unusual hands... we can do this with transfer=weak as well, but it doesn't fit as well... if LHO bids over our ostensibly weak transfer, partner is handicapped by thinking that we are weak when we are not.

[skjaeran]

mikeh, on Sep 5 2007, 08:02 PM, said:

mike777, on Sep 5 2007, 12:42 PM, said:

I would think 2nt here is some sort of weakish relay to 3clubs,,,,never natural.

If so then it seems a direct 3clubs shows this hand type? Real clubs, invite.

why wouldn't it be natural? I know that 2N natural is becoming an extinct animal, but it is still useful in some auctions, such as this one.

When playing with a non-regular partner I often agree that 2NT is always conventional.......except when it IS natural.
This is an example of the latter.

[hatchett]

I like to play 2NT as a good raise of partner's overcall in this type of sequence where no cuebid is avialable.

[awm]

It's been pointed out to me that the "trashy" two-level overcalls are almost invariably a six card suit. Usually the hands that good players overcall at the two-level red vs. white with only five cards in their suit are quite strong in overall values.

So it makes sense to use 2NT opposite these bids as a sort of two-way forcing call, showing either a balanced invitational hand (natural) or a limit raise of partner's suit. In either case you are happy to play three of partner's suit when partner has a trashy hand with six trumps, and want to get to game when partner has good values. In other words, since the only hands not worth a game bid over the 2NT call involve six trumps, you are willing to make the same bid with two or three card support.

With this in mind I'd bid 2NT in this auction, showing limit raise values and at least tolerance for clubs, and let partner do the right thing. I think 3♣ by me is a weaker hand and I don't want to hang partner for a minimum overcall by bidding past 3♣.