[rbforster]

I play a 16+ strong club system with light openers (Rule of 18, ~9-15). I presently play standard precision openers for 2♣ and 2♦:

• 2♣ 6+ or 5C/4M, 10-15 pts
  
• 2♦ short diamonds (43)15, 4414, or 4405 shapes, 10-15 pts

I know that many people don't like the 2♣ opener, especially with only 5 clubs, viewing it as a necessary evil in comparison to a completely nebulous diamond in competition. Similarly, 2♦ showing 3-suited with short diamonds specifically is very infrequent.

I thought I had a neat new idea when I considered Pass(!) as the initial bid for both 2♣ and 2♦ hand types in 1st/2nd seat (standard precision openings would apply in 3rd/4th seat), although I found that it had been previously discussed here (impossible pass, 1435s). To avoid passing out "our" hand too often, I was thinking of opening all 8+ point hands in both 3rd and 4th seat (these minimal, possibly balanced hands would bid 1♦ 3+, 1♥♠ 4+, or 2♣ 5+). The relevant auctions to show these stronger passed hands would use a 2/1 bid of 2♣ or 2♦ as shown:

P-1♦-2♣   10-15 usually 5+♣ (except for 4414), NF
P-1♦-2♦   10-15 4+♦/6+♣ (inverted), NF
P-1M-2♣ 10-15 5+♣, no fit for major, NF
P-1M-2♦  Drury 3+M 10-15, forcing to 2M
P-2♣-2♦  asking bid, forcing to 3♣ (with 9+♣ fit)

Since I play a light opening bid system, the 2/1 bids by a passed hand cannot be "natural" in the sense that 10+ points and a 5+ suit would have already bid, so these 2/1 bids didn't have a good meaning before (aside from Drury).

Assuming a reasonable set of constructive continuations can be worked out, I was trying to understand the trade offs between these methods and playing normal precision.

Advantages of Passing with 2♣/2♦ hands:
+ 2♣ and 2♦ openings in 1st/2nd seat are available for weak preempts
+ better uncontested auctions since these hands will hear from partner about his best suit before bidding
+ 4-4 major suit fits can be found opposite hands too weak to move over a 2♣ opener
+ lighter bids in 3rd seat help with leads and annoy opponents
+ 1♦ opener in 1st/2nd seat can promise 3+ (instead of 2+) if we also pass with 3325 shapes out of NT range (ie 13-15 balanced, playing a 10-12 NT)
+ GCC legal (for those in the US that care)

Disadvantages of Passing with 2♣/2♦ hands:
- occasionally passing out "our" part-score hand with 14-15 opposite 6-7 pts
- loss of the precision 2♣ opening as preemptive/lead directing when it's the opponents hand (less true of precision 2♦)
- bidding by opponents may jam the auction before the strong passing hand can rebid (ie P*-(1♠)-P-(2♠)-AP )
- 3rd seat preempts might need to be more disciplined to cater to partner's possible values
- 3rd seat bidding with 8 point balanced hands could be risky when partner has a weak pass
- loss of 2♣ as a conventional 2/1 by PH (2-way Drury or whatever)
- 4th seat openings with minimal values could balance opponents into a partial when it was "their" hand (instead of being able to pass out)

Despite the longer list of disadvantages, I think preemptive 2♣ and 2♦ openers and improved uncontested auctions would provide net gains due to their high frequency, while the disadvantageous scenarios seem less probable (at least to me). Please help me add to my lists with any other good or bad points you can think of - suggestions for improving these methods are most welcome!

[whereagles]

I have a better idea:

1♦ = any hand that would pass in regular precision
pass = any hand that would open 1♦, 2♣ or 2♦ in regular precision

You find it catalogued as "yellow HUM", though. In that case you could try swapping 1♦ and pass

I agree that 2m prees rock, though.

[awm]

This certainly works to some degree. I've tried something similar with phantom club (although just on the club hands) with a fair degree of success.

The main issue is actually in competitive sequences. Suppose the auction goes 3♠ to me. Say I have some moderately strong balanced hand (perhaps 15-17). Obviously to some degree I will be stuck -- if I pass, we could easily miss a game when partner has some flat 9-10. If I bid 3NT or double I could go for a huge number if partner's broke. Of course, much of the field will have the same dilemma as I do, so I may as well take a percentage action and hope for the best.

However, suppose instead the auction goes Pass-3♠ to me. Now the situation may be different for most of the field, because partner's pass carries different information. If we would open most 9-10 point hands, then I am fairly safe to pass with my balanced 15-17. This is one of the advantages of light openings -- I don't have to stick my neck out anymore in case partner has some "max pass" because I know partner can't have that good a hand. If I play a more standard system where we open all 12s and many 11s, I am at least safe to pass with 14-15 but may have to stick my neck out still with 17. On the other hand, since partner would pass a lot of 10-11 point hands this improves the expected point holding of partner so I'm less likely to go for a number.

The issue with passing the "club" hands in first seat is that now after Pass-3♠ I'm kind of stuck. It is not particularly safe for me to pass with a balanced 15-17 because partner could easily have enough for us to make game. On the other hand, because we open a lot of 8-9 point hands partner is probably more likely to be broke than if we played standard openings. This is potentially a serious fix. And it's not like partner will have an easy time balancing when he's got the "good" hand with clubs -- is it really safe to barge in with 4♣ or an off-shape double when this time partner in 3rd seat might be the one who's broke?.

[jmc]

I wanted to ask how this has been working out. I know I've seen you playing it some. Any thoughts now after some real hands and experience?


Jmc

[rbforster]

So far, so good.

I am happy with the constructive auctions for the most part, and have developed some reasonable agreements for game/slam exploration. It's a little tricky since both hands in a constructive auction are on 10-15, and we still have to look for major fits starting over 2♣. Still, like I said, I think these are all manageable issues since the PH's shapes are quite tightly defined. Currently I'm playing 2♦ and 2N as artificial asking bids over most 2♣ rebids, showing invite- and GF respectively. This seems pretty good. You can almost "pretend" you're bidding over a precision 2♣ opener and play similar methods (especially after a 1♦ opening).

I'm also quite happy with the occasional pass outs - we avoid misfits on very weak hands where 2♣ could be in trouble and rarely miss a partial.

Competitive issues have come up in real play, but I haven't really had enough experience to really say much definitively. The times it's come up it's been good for us - there are cases where partner can figure out to lead a club even when you passed throughout based on his strength and the opps bidding. Other times, we've been able to compete at a low level effectively without getting shut out. Small samples, like I say. New agreements will probably need to be worked out, but often it's as simple as not having separate PH agreements (like after a 1NT bid) so in that sense it makes things simpler sometimes.

Edit: oh, and playing Free's style of two-suited weak two bids, showing 5+/4+ in the suit bid and a major are lots of fun too. Right now we're using 2m = 5+m/4+M (either longer), 2♥ = 5+♥/4+♠ (either longer), and 2♠ weak. You can still preempt at the 3 level with a 6 card single-suiter if the mood and colors encourage you.

This post has been edited by Rob F: 2007-April-30, 01:45

[Free]

I don't play them 54+, I play 44+

[rbforster]

Free, on Apr 30 2007, 03:44 AM, said:

I don't play them 54+, I play 44+ 

We would too, but the ACBL thinks that's be too much fun for the old folks to handle. 5+ in your bid suit and you're good to go on conventional responses, etc, around here.