[pclayton]

If you've never owned a pet, skip this thread.

We have a Corgi that is going to be 12 on the 24th of this month. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old, and he has grown up with our kids, who are now 13, 16 and 18.

Several weeks ago he developed some swelling in both of his eyes. We took him to the vet last week, and the vet couldn't tell what if he has glaucoma or not. This morning, we took him again, after a steroid shot, eye drops and antibitoics. His eyes are a little better, but the vet seems to think he has a problem with his retinas, but wants to look at him again on Wednesday.

What bothers me about the whole situation is that both of these visits have done nothing to help alleviate the dog's pain. It appears to hurt him to open his eyes, and he is a lot more lethargic than usual.

Each visit costs several hundred dollars, and I can see surgery coming down the road to fix his vision. Corgies normally don't age longer than 13 or 14, so he's near the end of his term.

If we choose not to go ahead with the treatment, are we being inhumane by letting the dog suffer? At what point do you throw in the towel on an animal like this?

Obviously, he is like our 4th child, so this is very tough.

[the hog]

Oh Dear. If he were younger Phil, I'd say go for it and spend whatever it takes. I have done this in the past with my pets and never regretted it. But....he is 12. The trauma of vets visits and a possible operation and the pain he appears to be in change all this. Ask yourself how good his quality of life is.

[mike777]

Very personal and tough decision. First off if the blindness is irreversable but the dog in not in any pain I think that is one decision. Our dog 6 years old just had a huge operation, common but huge, on his leg. His ligament was replaced. The doctor told us dogs can stand alot more pain than we think. If your dog is really showing pain, well I would find a new doctor.

[fred]

We have a 13-year old lab-sheppard cross that we have had since she was a tiny puppy. About a year and a half ago she injured her knee and was clearly in serious pain. Surgery was an option, but our vet (who is great) told us that even if the surgery worked (no guarantees) the procedure itself (and the anaesthetic) was very risky for an old dog, even one who is in otherwise excellent health.

No doubt eye surgery is different from knee surgery, but you might want to think about this and discuss with your vet.

It sounds like you have doubts about your vet. If you feel like coming to Las Vegas with your dog I would be happy to introduce you to our vet.

Our dog is doing OK now thanks to various medication and serious effort on our part to make sure she does not do anything to injure her knee again. For example, going up and down stairs is bad so first thing in the morning I pick her up and carry her downstairs. Before we go to bed I carry her upstairs again.

I feel for you - hope everything works out.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

Sorry to hear about the puppy...

I don't think this is one I can offer much advice on.
Every case is going to be very different.

However, it sounds like you're going into this with all the right motives. I'm sure that you'll reach a good decision.

[mikeh]

My wife and I became dog people just over 4 years ago. We did so knowing that we would outlive the two puppies we acquired and that eventually we would be faced with the kind of dilemma now facing you. However, those of our friends who were already dog people told us it was worth it, and certainly our experiences with our guys have been wonderful.

While we are, I hope, 10-11 years away from facing your decision, my feeling is that you either opt for the treatment or opt for putting the dog to sleep....because I suspect that every day without treatment is going to be another day asking yourself the same question.

No-one but you and your family, together with the vet, can answer the choice of options, but doing nothing seems, with respect, to be the only guaranteed-to-be-unhappy approach.

My sympathies to you no matter what the outcome.

[Winstonm]

Tough one, Phil, and I understand your pain. Perhaps it would be wise to get a second opinion from another vet, and then you and your family will still have a tough decision.

Corey, my miniature dachsund, sends his love and hopes all turns out for the best.

[bid_em_up]

Phil,

While I certainly appreciate your situation, there are a couple of things to consider that aren't clear in your post.

You say that it "appears" to hurt him to open his eyes. An animal that is in pain will let you know. Does he growl at you now when he never did before? Does he howl or grunt unexpectedly? Does he snap/bite if you reach towards him unexpectedly? I ask only because it may be that he appears to be in pain to you, because he isn't his normal self. But he may or may not be in physical pain, or it could be that he just isn't feeling well.

From your description, it doesn't sound as if your vet has done much for him. A quick search of the internet reveals that Corgie's are prone to some hereditary eye diseases. One type is listed as progressive retinal atrophy in which the retinas become cloudy and eventually lead to blindness. I suppose there are others. From what little I read, there is no treatment (surgery) available for this. This type of disease is not supposed to be painful according to the information I found, as long as the animal remains in a familiar environment, he should be ok. I would look for a veterinary ophthalmologist (eye doctor for animals) in your area and have him evaluated. Or call a local animal hospital and ask them if they can recommend a vet who specializes in eye treatment.

It has been my experience that animals have ways of letting you know when it's their time to go. As hard as it is to put any animal to sleep, when the time is right, you will "know". If he is indeed "suffering', you will be aware of it, and you will know that it is time. However, I would not equate being uncomfortable with suffering.

No matter what, it is never an easy decision. Even when the time is right.

[pclayton]

bid_em_up, on Mar 6 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

Phil,

While I certainly appreciate your situation, there are a couple of things to consider that aren't clear in your post.

You say that it "appears" to hurt him to open his eyes. An animal that is in pain will let you know. Does he growl at you now when he never did before? Does he howl or grunt unexpectedly? Does he snap/bite if you reach towards him unexpectedly? I ask only because it may be that he appears to be in pain to you, because he isn't his normal self. But he may or may not be in physical pain, or it could be that he just isn't feeling well.

From your description, it doesn't sound as if your vet has done much for him. A quick search of the internet reveals that Corgie's are prone to some hereditary eye diseases. One type is listed as progressive retinal atrophy in which the retinas become cloudy and eventually lead to blindness. I suppose there are others. From what little I read, there is no treatment (surgery) available for this. This type of disease is not supposed to be painful according to the information I found, as long as the animal remains in a familiar environment, he should be ok. I would look for a veterinary ophthalmologist (eye doctor for animals) in your area and have him evaluated. Or call a local animal hospital and ask them if they can recommend a vet who specializes in eye treatment.

It has been my experience that animals have ways of letting you know when it's their time to go. As hard as it is to put any animal to sleep, when the time is right, you will "know". If he is indeed "suffering', you will be aware of it, and you will know that it is time. However, I would not equate being uncomfortable with suffering.

No matter what, it is never an easy decision. Even when the time is right.

The vet says it appears his retinas are scratched. His eyes do appear cloudy. I'll ask about the retinal atrophy; so far the vet has focused on potential glaucoma.

We have a newer home on a smaller lot, but it is two-story, so I'm concerned about a blind animal navigating his way around stairs. One of my bridge partners, Brian Gibert has a poodle that is 18, and half-blind who makes it around just fine.

He constantly is scratching his face against the walls and furniture and with his paws. He's doesn't growl much (unless you come near him when he eats LOL), but he doesn't seem visibly upset when we put the eyedrops in, so I don't think he's in that much pain. It might just be uncomfortable.

We have another appointment tomorrow, and I think we'll decide a course of action.

Thanks everyone for the nice thoughts.

[jikl]

Good luck Phil,

It is amazing how many of us are dog owners among the regular posters.

Sean

[keylime]

This is a very difficult position to be in.

As an owner of 2 cats, I would do everything within remote reason for their health. I agree that a 2nd view from a different vet might be greatly beneficial.

So, Bugatti and Bacianna (and I) wish their best.

[Rain]

Yeah.

My Polo (the one in the picture) was diagnosed with weird problems some time ago. He was in such pain, but he was 8-9. Not too old.

We chose to help and give him all the treatments we can, except for surgery. This includes aquatherapy, accupuncture. They seemed to help alleviate his pain a little, but its not a cure.

We just can't put him to sleep. His little sister developed problems too 3 years ago, and we couldn't do it for her either.

Polo died recently in his sleep. So did his sister, years ago.

My family and I couldn't say goodbye and just put him to sleep. Whatever time we have left is never enough. If you can help alleviate his pain, that may work for you too.

[pclayton]

Sorry to hear Rain

By the way, retinal atrophy is ruled out. It just looks like his corneas are scratched up. He'll get by

[Phil]

Taz passed away this afternoon.

Tazzy lived two more years after this incident with his eyes and recovered fully. Over the last year he developed myelopathy which made it very difficult for his to move around. Still, he seemed happy and we didn't want to put him down.

Nature took its course. All things must pass.

He will be missed.

[Lobowolf]

Condolences, Phil.

I wasn't on the forums when this thread started; only saw it when it got kicked up again. I think you made the right call originally, and I'm glad that he (and your family) got another two good years.

We never get nearly enough time with them.

[Rain]

Sorry Phil, life's journey can be so damn sucky.

[y66]

Sorry to hear about Taz. They don't call 'em man's best friend for nothing.

[kenberg]

My condolences to you and your family.

We have lost both our black labs recently. We had Bean put down a year or so ago. This was of course a tough decisioin. He was to be a seeing eye dog after we "puppy walked: him for a year but he had joint problems so he came back to us. Over his lifetime he had every one of his legs operated on. As he got to be an old dog we decided that there would be no more operations. Eventually it was time. Molly died a couple of months ago while we were in Philadelphia. She was staying at the vet's, they had taken her for a walk, brought her back to rest, and shortly after she was dead.

We did what we thought was right for both of these dogs, I believe that thay each had a good life, and then it ends.

Best wishes,
Ken

PS The place that breeds seeing eye dogs were responsible for the name "Bean" He had a sister named Carrot so it could have been worse.

[Apollo81]

Phil, on Jul 16 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

Taz passed away this afternoon.

Tazzy lived two more years after this incident with his eyes and recovered fully. Over the last year he developed myelopathy which made it very difficult for his to move around. Still, he seemed happy and we didn't want to put him down.

Nature took its course. All things must pass.

He will be missed.

Condolences -- we have a corgi (mix) too, she's 4 1/2. I'm definitely not looking forward to 7-9 years from now.