[xx1943]

Scoring: IMP

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Hi all!!

Imo this is not a 2♣-opener. You have exactly 9 playing tricks and need in a minor 9.5 tricks at least. You cannot make 5♦ without partner having 2 Quick-tricks in the blacks. I can't hard imagine a hand with partner, which makes 3NT and he passes 1♦. Perhaps QTxx,xxx,xx,QTxx and 3NT isn't sure.
So I think it is safe to open 1♦.

But what is your rebid after partner bids 1♥??

1) a faky 1♠ forcing but misdescribing
2) 3♦. Is that really forcing?
3) 3NT showing a long and strong minor, but you are open in both blacks. 3NT maybe down, while 6♦ makes opposite Axxx,QJxxx,xxx,x

Is this another hand which calls for playing a strong club system?

Looking forward your expert comments

cheers

Al

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I ignore "expert comments".

1) 2C is ok, at least if the bidding can go

2C - 2D
3D - all pass

But since you only have 18 HCP, you can be pretty
certain, that the bidding wont die at the 1 level

2) after a 1D opening bid and a 1 level response,
there are several solutions to this problem.
One solution would be tofollow a suggestion made by
Richard Pavlicek to switch the meaning of oopeners
2D / 3D rebid, making the 2D rebid forcing.

Plying standard, if you make a rebid of 3D and partner
passes, you wont miss game often, since 3NT will be
down most of th time.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[xx1943]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 20 2006, 01:59 PM, said:

1)................
    But since you only have 18 HCP, you can be pretty
certain, that the bidding wont die at the 1 level ...........

100% agree

P_Marlowe, on Nov 20 2006, 01:59 PM, said:

2) ......
    One solution would be tofollow a suggestion made by
    Richard Pavlicek to switch the meaning of oopeners
    2D / 3D rebid, making the 2D rebid forcing.
........................

Great idea, but aren't you going too high with a lot weak hands? Playing 3♦ with
Ax,Kx,AJxxxx,xx opposite Kxxx, QJxx, x, xxxx

P_Marlowe, on Nov 20 2006, 01:59 PM, said:

Hi,
Playing standard, if you make a rebid of 3D and partner
    passes, you wont miss game often, since 3NT will be
    down most of th time.

100% agree

Many thanks

Al

[P_Marlowe]

xx1943, on Nov 20 2006, 07:54 AM, said:

<snip>

P_Marlowe, on Nov 20 2006, 01:59 PM, said:

2) ......
    One solution would be tofollow a suggestion made by
    Richard Pavlicek to switch the meaning of oopeners
    2D / 3D rebid, making the 2D rebid forcing.
........................

Great idea, but aren't you going too high with a lot weak hands? Playing 3♦ with
Ax,Kx,AJxxxx,xx opposite Kxxx, QJxx, x, xxxx
<snip>

Hi,

this may happen.

But the main problem with this apprach is,
that you will have to make a 1NT rebid with
certain 5-4-3-1 shapes.
If you regular raise partners mayor with 3
card support, whith this shape, the problematic
hands reduce to hands with a singleton opposite
partners mayor.

Also the suggested approach may not really work
well with Walsh responses, in case the opener was 1C.

On the other hand, you will win in game going
auctions, also makeing it easier to explore a minor
slam slam below 3NT.

I only played it once, but I like the idea, but I was not
able to convice my regular partner, he says, we other
more urgent things to do..

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: There was thread concerning this issue, and it did discuss
a different solution, e.g. Roland suggested to use an "artificial"
reverse.

[whereagles]

I stopped worrying about these hands long ago. Hands as strong as these are so rare that I just open 2♣ and think about it later. I much rather have the benefeits of limiting my 1-level openers to 17 hcp on 1-suited hands.

[inquiry]

One doesn't have to play strong club systems to handle hands like this (but it helps). Certainly, 100% do not open this 2C.

I disagree with the suggestion that 1D-1M-2D and 1D-1M-3D be reversed, but for an odd reason. My 1D-1x-3D shows 3 card support for major and 6+ fairly good diamonds. In fact, I have reversed 1D-1M-2C and 1D-1M-3C and am quite happy with that. In fact, 2C doesn't even have to be a real suit, it can be on hand with just a diamond suit and no three card support for the major, or it can be on huge balanced hand. Over tihis 2C bid, 2D is a weak response, so you can show extras should you desire by bidding 3D over that raise.

I also use 2D (multi) to show acol two in a minor or big balanced hand or, of course, weak two in either major. This hand probably falls just short of my requirements for an acol 2 bid in diamonds as I have roughly describe that as 9.5 tricks, I see 9.

[Codo]

PD needs just 4 HCP to make 3 NT icecold if his hand has 98xx in club or 8xxxxx in club aside the ace of spade. But this is still no reason to open it 2 ♣.

I would be happy with 1 ♦ 1 ♥ 3 ♦. This shows at least 17 HCPs and about 8 tricks, so pd will surely bid game with enough power in the black suits.

Else, you must hope, that he prodcues the right cards, precisly AK in a black suit to make 5 Diamond a fine contract.

And lI am not convinced, that the strong club had helped. After all, even if the opps are silent, can you figure out, that pd has f.e. QJTx,xxxx,x,Qxxx and game is certain or Kxxx,Qxxxx,x,Qxx and game has about 50 %?

[mike777]

1D, No problem yet.

If forced over 1H I will just rebid 3nt....no one bids spade or clubs yet, correct?

Do they still pay a Bonus for vul games at imps?

[pclayton]

I would content myself with a 3♦ rebid over 1♥. If pard passes, you probably don't have a game.

3N is speculative with 2 open black suits. Move my ♥K to a black suit and I'll try it.

[cherdano]

mike777, on Nov 20 2006, 04:23 PM, said:

1D, No problem yet.

If forced over 1H I will just rebid 3nt....no one bids spade or clubs yet, correct?

Do they still pay a Bonus for vul games at imps?

Only if you make them. Which may well happen at the other table after 1D-1H-3D-3N while you are down 3.
As usual I wouldn't mind overbidding, but I do when it doesn't describe the hand, AND wrongsides the most likely money contract.

[Echognome]

I'm not sure why a strong club helps anything? If partner responds positively to your 1♣ you get to game. With any positive to 1♣ are you also getting to game after 1♦ - 1M - 3♦?

Now suppose partner responds negatively. How are you getting to game now when it's right? In fact, most will bid 2♦ and if partner is semi-positive (around 6-8) he'll bid again. Then you bid 3♦ and you've pretty much replicated the auction above.

I personally would bid 3NT over a 1♠ response (gambling on either a heart lead or partner being able to stop both blacks) and only 3♦ over a 1♥ response.

[mcphee]

A 3D rebid is too soft and only whos about 7 playing tricks, so this is out. I like a 3NT rebid these hands, it is what I hope to make. If partner has responded with minimum values he may pass 3D when 3NT is gin. Although 3NT might even go down, what can you do? Bid game let them beat me is a good plan many times. This is the sort of hand partner would expect, long running D.

2C opening is wrong I think, and I am confident many will feel 3NT rebid is also poor.

[mike777]

The problem as usual is that 1minor=1major=3minor means anything that opener wants it too mean.

[HeartA]

There is no way I would open this 2C. After any response from pd (without interruption), I would bid 3NT.

[the hog]

This is NOWHERE NEAR a 2C opening as Ben and Phil and HeartA have already indicated. Open 1D and rebid 3D. 3NT is a crazy butcher's bid with 2 suits wide open. I might bid it after 1S, but certainly not after a 1H response.

As an aside: you don't need to play a big C system to handle this hand type. As I intimated in a previous post, there is a nice 2NT rebid gadget to handle this, borrowed from Strefa and Nasz systems. It came up a lot when I played this, but many posters here are unwilling to try something that does not emanate from the US.