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Bergen Raises

#1 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2003-November-09, 16:32

I wonder what HCP-ranges people use for Bergen Raises. I'm used to play
1M-3C = 7-9 HCP
1M-3D = 10-11 HCP
1M-3M = 0-6 HCP

But I read something else today: 11-12, 8-10 and 3-7. Can anyone explain how you're playing, and how most people play it??

Free
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#2 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2003-November-09, 17:09

Quote

I wonder what HCP-ranges people use for Bergen Raises. I'm used to play
1M-3C = 7-9 HCP
1M-3D = 10-11 HCP
1M-3M = 0-6 HCP

But I read something else today: 11-12, 8-10 and 3-7. Can anyone explain how you're playing, and how most people play it??

Free


hi free.. i play 3C is limit, and it's 10-12.. 3D is 7-9, 3M is 0-6, 4M is 0-7 (with 5+ trumps).. i don't see anything wrong with raising 1M to 3M with no points and 4 trumps :)
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#3 User is offline   bhugi 

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Posted 2003-November-09, 23:11

Quote

I wonder what HCP-ranges people use for Bergen Raises. I'm used to play
1M-3C = 7-9 HCP
1M-3D = 10-11 HCP
1M-3M = 0-6 HCP

But I read something else today: 11-12, 8-10 and 3-7. Can anyone explain how you're playing, and how most people play it??

Free


similar
1M-3C = 7-9 HCP
1M-3D = 10-bad 12 HCP
1M-3M = 0-6 HCP

I play revBergen with some partners, where 3C & 3D repond meanings are interchange.
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#4 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2003-November-10, 00:10

Quote

I wonder what HCP-ranges people use for Bergen Raises. I'm used to play
1M-3C = 7-9 HCP
1M-3D = 10-11 HCP
1M-3M = 0-6 HCP

But I read something else today: 11-12, 8-10 and 3-7. Can anyone explain how you're playing, and how most people play it??

Free


You can efficiently play 3C as a wider range than 3D. I do not think that it matters exactly what range you play.

I usually play (when I play Bergen):

1M 2NT = GF
1M 3C = 6-9
1M 3D = 10-11
1M 3M = 0-5 I guess

Over 3C you can clarify the range with 3D..

1M 3C
3D 3M = minimum

1M 3C
3D 4M = maximum (or show some other feature.)

Wayne
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#5 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2003-November-10, 13:41

When I play bergen, I use one of the following two schedules (depending upon what I can talk partner into):

2NT = 4 trumps, 12+ (yes, this is not typical, not quite GF)
3C = 4 trumps, 7-9 hcp
3D = 4 trumps, 10-11 hcp
3M = 4 trumps, 0-6 hcp

or

2NT = game force with 4+ trumps
3C = 4 trumps, 8-10 hcp
3D = 4 trumps, 11-12 hcp
3M = 4 trumps, 0-7 hcp

I don't leave room between the 11-12 point hand on 1H-3D, since no "logical" way to separate good 3D from bad 3D bid based upon hcp. Partner either bids game or doesn;t. I leave room with the 3 point range, so that partner can invite with the inbetween bid (1H-3C-3D <--- general invite).

I think it is ok to reverse strong and weak bids, that is, make 3D the weaker, but if you do so, make the weak raise only cover 2 hcp, and put more room on the 3C bid (again because of the room to invite).

I think if you use BERGEN, you have to have the 3D bid be very narrowly defined, 2 points is wide enough range.
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#6 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2003-November-10, 13:54

Were these Bergen raises with their closely defined HCP raises invented by the same Bergen who wrote "Points Schmoints"?! :D

Eric
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Posted 2003-November-10, 14:00

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Were these Bergen raises with their closely defined HCP raises invented by the same Bergen who wrote "Points Schmoints"?! :D

Eric


Yes, Marty Bergen.... Although not sure any two people play his raises the same way... (well, that is an exaggeration)... the more traditional range can be found here,,,
http://userpages.cho...rman/bergen.htm

Some of his other books are "Bid Better with Bergen, vol I and vol II", and "negative doubles".

Ben
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Posted 2003-November-10, 14:33

The surpising thing about this thread is all the discussion about HCPs.
You are in a "FIT" auction. Loser count is going to be much more important than HCPs.

I'm pretty indifferent between

3C Constructive/3D Limit and
3C Limit / 3D Constructive

However, I'm pretty adamant that defining the constructive raise as 9 losers and the limit raise as 8 losers is better than relying on HCP.
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Posted 2003-November-10, 14:51

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The surpising thing about this thread is all the discussion about HCPs.


Well, of course the question was how do you play BERGEN raises. And this is how Bergen described his raises, and how people play them. Most people use HCP as a guidepost here, and can use common sense to add to or subtract from the hcp total based upon other features of the hand. For instance, playing Bergen you still play splinters, so some 7, 8, 10, point hands with 4 card support are not bid via 3c or 3d, but rather by a splinter bid.

Ben
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#10 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2003-November-10, 16:52

Quote


The surpising thing about this thread is all the discussion about HCPs.
You are in a "FIT" auction. Loser count is going to be much more important than HCPs.

I'm pretty indifferent between

3C Constructive/3D Limit and
3C Limit / 3D Constructive

However, I'm pretty adamant that defining the constructive raise as 9 losers and the limit raise as 8 losers is better than relying on HCP.


That was the point I was trying to make with my joke about "Points Schmoints".

Eric
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